Warhammer 40,000 Review Vox Cast: Saga of The Beast

Avatar Tabletop Tactics April 9, 202012  66 12 Likes

Bone and Spider sit down to review the latest Psychic Awakening supplement.

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Tom Vierlinger
Tom Vierlinger
7 months ago

Well, in my opinion: space wolves still have the best standart infantry compared to other chapters, because they are so incredable versatile. (talking about grey hunters here) – heroic intervention on 6″ for 1cp – carry extra chainwords for free – can fire there bolters in close combat for 1cp – hammers & fists hit on a normal hitrole in the first round of combat (all other units on 2+!) + they greatly benefited from the shock assault (and generate extra attacks on 6’es in round 3) – they can outflank for 1 cp (pretty good i think, did it… Read more »

Villainjake
Member
Villainjake
7 months ago

Just listening to the way the rules are worded it is sounding like AOS, by stealth. I can see marines being a stormcast force with little rules changes for the different storm vaults/chapters. The basic marine stuff was we knew it will go the way of the free peoples. They have a bible of rules wording in AOS that is starting to appear in 40K and thats a good thing. The minimum charge role is something the undead have, plus Ghazghkull has a similar ability to Morathi. It is good to borrow a rule if it works, AOS changed it’s… Read more »

DakkaJoe07
DakkaJoe07
7 months ago

I have tried a game with an outrider of boomboyz containing two single deffkopta’s and speed mob of 3 megatrakk scrapjets. I also gave them the corkscrew kustom jobs upgrade and they did insanely well. An average of 4 S9 -3 flat damage 3 shots, plus all the big shoots shots. Then 3d3 mortal wound potential if they all charge the same unit. Then use the stratagem to let one charge immediately again, then attack, consolidate and attack again with all 3. I ran a waagh banner and da jumped him in range. So my corkscrew attacks were hitting on… Read more »

I-Am-Alpharius
I-Am-Alpharius
7 months ago

Lawrence : “This should be your book”
Ahh yes! “Saga of the Bone” ft. Nig’l Bigtoof and Cadmus Bane

MasterWis
Member
7 months ago

Ok guys is there a drinking game on-going to whom says the most “in my opinion” per video? 🙂

Matt
Matt
7 months ago

Quick question are you going to do a review on the new psychic awakening rules for Deathwatch rules that come at the start of May in the next White Dwarf magazine.

westcl2
Member
westcl2
7 months ago

while i agree that wolves didn’t get what they really needed(better delivery excluding the litany), i disagree on the fluff not being there.

sw had the most fleshed out of the original marine codexes and they have very unique rules. the sagas are very different, lone wolf strat, army wide heroic intervention of 6″ and so on.

imo sw are victims of 8th having such devastating shoot phases not so much a lack of good and fluffy rules

Samuel Aster
Member
Samuel Aster
7 months ago

Man i feel this review so bad, i like my space wolves army because they feel like vikings and wolves and all the stuff, thats why i dont add primaris to them, first the bad fluff, and second primaris for me are just one big army on their own with just different colors thrown on them and not being fluffy at all. BBone i alwyas thought you like the primaris more than the normal marines because you hype everything up that gets released for them, thats why it is kinda new to see you so sad talking about all the… Read more »

Leroy_Infinity
Leroy_Infinity
7 months ago

Lawrence hit the nail on the head “It’s better than having nothing.” There are some fun things in there; some good excuses to take different units and mix up your usual list but they are gimmicks really and nothing substantial. The fact that our chapter specific buff doesn’t kick in till T3 is a killer. In 90% of my games, by T3 it’s pretty much over. Either I’ve managed to hit the opponents line in T2 and have torn them a new one or I’ve been shot to pieces trying to get there. An extra attack, if I am lucky… Read more »

Dr.Marmalade
Member
Dr.Marmalade
7 months ago

Great review guys. As a Daemon player, it always amuses me when people berate the fact they have to spend cp to deepstrike units. If there was ever a codex that needed to get the marines “supplement” treatment, its the daemon book.

Bellchump
Member
Bellchump
7 months ago

Rather than making melee units better in combat (more attacks, more damage), they need to focus on getting them into combat. At the moment good melee units are as good in the fight phase as good shooty units are in the shooting phase. If melee units are going to be delivered into combat more reliably, the number of attacks and amount of damage needs to be toned down (the same issues as shooty units). Another option is to limit overwatch to units that didn’t shoot in the shooting phase, but in this case 6s to hit might also have to… Read more »

John Barber
Member
John Barber
7 months ago

I think that part of the problem is the lack of primaris close assault elements as much as they are delivery mechanisms. I guess Reiver’s technically fulfill the role, but since they run around with daggers they only get their… fangs… in turn 3.

Michael Wemken
Michael Wemken
7 months ago

As always, thanks for the entertainment in these grim dark times. SotB certainly missed the opportunity to fix what was wrong with Wolves. But I honestly really like some of the Phobos units. Reivers and Incursors can be put to good use and their style is plenty wolfy. I’ve also taken the vets in Impulsors out for a spin recently and it’s fun. The mobility is a breath of fresh air and I’m sure Ragnar will make them significantly better. Kinda want to try the stalker pack specialist detachment with blood claws and reivers to compliment the rush. GW can… Read more »

Connor112
Connor112
7 months ago

I think as time goes on all the chapters like space wolves , dark angels, and blood angels will get unique units that are primaris. Like the space wolf flyer but primaris for example. I think a lot of those armies are in limbo right now cause primaris Marines are a new range.

Tropic Thunder
Tropic Thunder
7 months ago

Thank you for the overview, fellas. Much appreciated! The only SM variant I play is SW, but I also play a number of other armies. As a result, I purchased many of the other PA books to get all the goodies for those armies, including Blood of Baal. As I’m in pre-order purgatory with Saga of the Beast, would it be possible to confirm what BA datasheets in Blood of Baal can be used to create current SW lists while I wait for GW to come back online w/ order fulfillment? I understand some weapons options will be different (e.g.… Read more »

Nathaniel Hause
Nathaniel Hause
7 months ago

Great Vid guys. I think there’s a lot of opportunity to use the phobos units in unique ways that hopefully keep the Space Wolf flavor. I’m looking forward to trying out using Cunning of the Wolf on a unit of 10 Incursors on turn 2. This would then give me two turns of shooting (ignoring cover) and can pop Gene Wrought Might for a turn 3 charge. This would give me 31 attacks on the charge with every natural six giving me 2x automatic wounds (with savage fury) AND an additional hit. Not a game changer, but you can get… Read more »

Paul Turner
Member
Paul Turner
7 months ago

I feel your pain on the space wolves bone. I run a lot of armies but love the characters, dreadnoughts, thunder wolf cav and wolfen … that to me is what makes them different, and fun. There are no assault Primaris that I consider wolf enough. You can’t even take thunder hammers with infiltrators or incursor squads, reavers are close but still knives are not axes.. I will take Primaris Ragnar just because he is cool but he will remain my only Primaris model in the wolves. I can run Primaris with my salamanders and deathwatch and that fits better.… Read more »

Alex Andersson
Alex Andersson
7 months ago

Great talk guys! Generally, the vox casts are some of my favorite content since I generally always paint at the same time as I enjoy the videos 🙂 I think it is generally hard to pinpoint exactly what is the problem with marines in general. You echo the dissapointment I feel over my standard codex marines in a way, although they are considered very strong at the moment I feel like Codex: Space Marines rest on a very fragile base being made up mainly by Intercessors and some other key units and stratagems. Almost all space marine variants suffer from… Read more »

fulgrimatic
fulgrimatic
7 months ago

Loving a particular “style” of a faction is like loving your woman. Her at 20 not going to be her at 40. Love has to adapt. BA was my first army waaaay back in 2e when having *any* unit that wasn’t universally available was really effin rare. Even now with my EC, it goes beyond just color schemes and accessories. *I* make my purple csm into EC. Expecting GW to satisfy my expectations is just begging for disappointment. Great review. When are we going to see all melee SW vs BA? Maybe let Bone show up Turn 3 with Ghazkul… Read more »

TheGravyBoater
Member
TheGravyBoater
7 months ago

Hello Gents, Firstly big fan and thank you for the video. i feel like the discontent you are showing the wolves in this video is is truly down to the lack of units you have in the studio army. i think the wolves got a good “do up” in this PA i like majority of the copy and paste strats that are in the marine codex some are what we’ve been needing for years! id just like to two point a few things, wolf guard bomb is going to be a thing, load them with jump packs and PF/SS and… Read more »

Bigj5274
Member
Bigj5274
7 months ago

I’d like then to do the littanies like exarch powers. You pick one for your wolf priest and its always active.

Jordan Kleemaier
Jordan Kleemaier
7 months ago

Love the vid but had to pause and make this comment, you guys need to reread crushing assault strat and really check the wording, you can do a maximum of 6 MW on the charge… “Use this stratagem in the charge phase when a thunderwolf cavalry unit from your army finishes a charge move. for EACH MODEL in that UNIT, you can select one enemy UNIT within1″ of that MODEL and roll one d6; on a 2+ that enemy unit suffers 1 mortal wound.” unless I’m miss interpreting it, this specifically says per model can deal a 1 MW on… Read more »

pasch
pasch
7 months ago

I love you guys, but just brushing over the wolf priest and the ability to get +2″ charge seems quite strange considering you can get a wolf priest with a JP to where he needs to be if you use the deep strike stratagem on wulfen or TWC. I believe the disappointment stems from the army you have that doesn’t work to well. Just for shit and giggles bone: Test a list with 2 Wolfpriests, Incursors, a few psikers and two wulfen squads or wulfen + twc. Doesn’t need to be on stream cause you dont have the models. Just… Read more »

William
Member
7 months ago

Ghaz & Makari are pretty good too, a tad overcosted imo (250pts and 50pts respectively would have been spot on) A 6+ FNP on EVERY unit is pretty interesting, they are really pushing you to play both together. I can see makari eating the overwatch for ghaz everytime with is 2++ haha

Anders Collin Aabo Jepsen
Member
Anders Collin Aabo Jepsen
7 months ago

Chaos Space Marines don’t even compare with tactical marines.
Death to false Emperor only works against some armies. Where And they shall know no fear always works.
There chapter tactic is worse as it only gives one rule, to the Space Marines 2-3 rules.
They can’t combat squad.
They don’t have Doctrines or anything to replace it.

William
Member
7 months ago

That Deathskullz psychic power is actually pretty amazing, a debuff / buff spell rolled into one. Played 3 games with it before this whole mess went down. -1AP for both shoothing and CC is amazing. Boyz are pretty brutal with this in CC, Ap-1 boyz? Hell Yeah! Nobz with Big Choppa’s at -2ap? Hell Yeah! Gorkanauts & Morkanauts? Yes plz. The -1 to hit on the unit is just icing on the cake.

Deathskullz where the best overhaul klan imo, it just made them even better.

Aron Rowley
Aron Rowley
7 months ago

Would giving space wolves the ability to advance and charge make a difference?

James Hay
James Hay
7 months ago

What do you guys think of giving SW an army wide ability to disembark vehicles after they’ve moved? Just a thought to perhaps address a delivery method that fluff-wise represents them chomping at the bit to pile out of transports straight into the enemy. Could be a bit OP on a stormwolf though.

Love your work and appreciate all your content.

MarshalKilroy
Member
MarshalKilroy
7 months ago

This felt like a therapy session to me, Bone. You’re really highlighting my feelings when it comes to my Space Wolves. That is what drew me to the army over other marines, they are so so so unique. I honestly think it is inevitable that the classic marines will be phased out and that Primaris is the way to go, they just need to put the primaris into the unique chapters (especially space wolves) properly. Primaris should have only ever come into the space wolves as grey hunter/blood claw/wolf guard primaris. So yes, the flavor of the army is just… Read more »

Karlosdjackle
Member
7 months ago

I don’t quite get the SW codex disappointment. I think there’s still loads you can do. Just because you have to being the new transport for Ragner doesn’t mean you then have to spam them. Run the transport alongside thunder wolves and skyclaws or blood claws in rhinos. Greyhunters were wolfed up tactical marines, skyclaws were wolfed up assault marines so what’s wrong with wolfed up primaris. This in my opinion is why competitive Warhammer can be a negative thing because you start looking at codex by power in competitive setting as opposed to wow, I can’t wait to convert… Read more »

Azaiel
Member
Azaiel
7 months ago

Im a bit miffed by the nerf to the KFF for the big mek, it now only protects orks from the same clan. And it doesnt give a 5+ invul to a vehicle with the big mek in it, like a trukk.

Richard Smith
Richard Smith
7 months ago

Can’t heal Ghazgull unfortunately as he does not have the infantry keyword 🙁 also his advance and charge aura doesn’t work on himself for the same reason. SAD

Ivan A
Member
Ivan A
7 months ago

You can’t give the Deffkilla Wartrike the biggest boss 🙁 That is the first thing I checked and he doesn’t have the Warboss keyword. I was so heart broken because I got one, painted it and I want to make it work and its hard..

Framfram
Framfram
7 months ago

I agree that the space wolves isn’t as good as some of the other chapters and there are still lots of issues with getting units into combat but I’ve been having some luck with going back in time and building an alpha strike style army. Space wolves are great once you get into an enemy’s lines and if you can keep the pressure on I’ve managed to get a few cheeky wins. I know you have said about doing list analysis for the wolves but do you still look at suggested lists? Would love to see what you think of… Read more »

Daniel Barter
Daniel Barter
7 months ago

Cheers for the review! Couldn’t agree more with the flavour not fitting/seeming very bland with the Primaris integration for the Space Wolves. But hey, head-canon exists to override this 🙂 Haven’t really played my wolves for a couple of years due to working on my AdMech, so I don’t own any Primaris. My old Wolf Guard heavy list now looks pretty nice though. WGTDA with combiplas/SS (or just SB/SS) with doctrines and +1 to hit strats the turn they drop in are nasty. WGJP with SB/SS and doctrines are fun too. You can also give these guys dual chainswords to… Read more »

Paul McDonald
Member
Paul McDonald
7 months ago

This PA was a real mixed bag for my beloved Space Wolves. On the one hand, it was nice to get doctrines so our weapons were at least equal to the other Space Marine chapters (it was ridiculous how on turn 1 a SW lascannon had less ap than an Ultramarine one) and some of the strats are interesting and will be fun to use. Ragnar is an absolute beast but will be singled out by snipers turn 1 anyway. However there just seemed to be so much missing. For one, after Blood Angels got Primaris Death Company, I was… Read more »

Uddhava
Member
Uddhava
7 months ago

I still wonder why they are not primarising the bloodclaws and greyhunters. If I’m not mistaken BA got their Death Company intercessors? That would at least bring some flavor back to the army and fits with the SW not want to be codex compliant.
also, I was hoping the SW special rule (+1 to hit in CC) would get something extra, similar to how BA got something extra. Overall it feels a little underwhelming.

Stefano
Member
Stefano
7 months ago

I use a couple Impulsor in my Primaris Ultramarine successor chapter, one with a captain with Burning Blade and the other with a chaplain with Benediction of Fury and I think they work very well (obviously they run with Thunder Hammer Intercessors). I think Chaplains work well like this, they have more flexibility even though you can’t be certain that their litanies goes off, but then again I can imagine how salty everyone would have been if those were automatic effects, like the chapter master rerolls aura. About the Space Wolves, I kinda get what you mean, but for things… Read more »

fidgetybutton
fidgetybutton
7 months ago

don’t see why they cant just make primaris models take up 2 spots in a vehicle like terminators and play around with the blood claws more, change some rules and points seeing as they are the new recruits find a way to put there stats in between marines and scouts will fix the cp problem and give some more models on the board and give them the rule the black Templar had all the way back when where when they pass moral they can move after for free or make it a strat so we can at least get something… Read more »

headsmen.of.morkai
Member
headsmen.of.morkai
7 months ago

I think the major problem with the books is that given the fact the codex was printed with the wrong warlord traits now the psychic awakening book is printed with the old stratagems for “duty eternal”, combat doctrine rules, ulrik having the old rules still so waiting for another faq etc.. It feel like GW doesn’t like the army as a whole to play with in 8th edition. If you pay for example for the collectors edition codex (60€) and during shipping process warhammer community announces they made a mistake and are sorry for that without any other compensation that… Read more »

Mikhail Davis
Member
7 months ago

At least Ulrik has his re roll failed hit abilities because he doesn’t have access to litanies, well he technically does have access to them, there aren’t any rules telling him how many litanies he can cast.

intimeforchristmas@gmail.com
intimeforchristmas@gmail.com
7 months ago

I am a little disappointed in Games Workshop. This book was released on day 1 already obsolete… this edition has really become a bloated mess. I dont want 5 books to run an army. They really need to consider a subscription service and digital updates.

Sebastian
Sebastian
7 months ago

Um … Space Wolves (Blood Angels, Dark Angels, etc.) cannot get the upgraded super-chaplain (or techmarine, librarian, etc..) from faith & fury.
Those are Codex Space Marines only (not to mention that Wolf Priests don’t have the Chaplain keyword).

You also cannot outflank Cavalry. Unlike the White Scars outflank, the Space Wolves one is Infantry only.

Morkai Teeth Bolts (pending an FAQ) are nice to give re-roll 1s to wound to a Knight, AdMech, Sisters, etc.. army by souping in a single Space Wolf.