9th Edition – The Points and Changes So Far… | Warhammer 40,000 State of Play
Spider July 17, 202017
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Bone and Chef have a discussion on the first few weeks of public 9th Edition gaming, the Munitorum Points values being discussed, and what the team’s general thoughts are on what this means going forward.
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ATTENTION: For those of you frustrated by the points in the Munitorum Field manual, we understand. The Munitorum Field Manual points ARE a massive ball drop by GW. That doesn’t however mean that it won’t get fixed with new releases. Will it take ages to release these things? We have no idea! Are we frustrated at the prospect of it taking too long? Of course we are! Have we fed back what could be better changed in the interim? Of course we have! In the meantime, I’m already working with the new points and finding new combos in the interim.… Read more »
Great discussion, love that you guys are able to criticize while still keeping an open mind. I unfortunately find that a lot of the warhammer community can be very knee-jerkish and toxic at times, which is not very fun for new/returning players trying to get into the game. I personally had to step-back and unsubscribe from the Reddit communities I was part of as the constant negativity and inability to have genuine constructive discussions with people just left me with a sour taste in my mouth whenever I tried to engage. Looking back at how the game has evolved and… Read more »
Chef I set my alarm for 04:42 when I’m on earlies? I’m normal right?………..
Agree with everything you guys have said. It does feel a little disappointing and I have tried not to let it burst my 9th bubble, however we have to keep pushing forward. Crusade looks amazing and as a non-competitive player the rules feel so much more realistic. However, completely understand my 40k brothers and sisters who are down about their armies being knocked.
As a 7th edition GK player, hold on in there.
Frankly a lot of what you’ve said could apply to life more generally, so here’s to your efforts to improve the human race!
Hoping for a future ruled by plants.
You both need to start a new series called 40k Therapy with a chaise longue. Or maybe ‘TT Plant Corner’? Props to you guys for giving some tough love at times and also loads of thoughtful comments. Class act.
I was super excited by 9th core. But these points proved GW is just getting even worse. I’m not going to wait another 3 years for these points to not be garbage and make sense.
Enjoyed the vodcast guys! Good to hear both sides of the argument and acknowledge whilst there is initial difficulties, there is a means to an end.
Works for me!
Loving the 9th gameplay also!
Really interesting chat, don’t mind the points values largely. Like you said they will all be changed over time.
As a man who hasn’t bought PA yet for either my grey knights or death guard, I do hope the codexes don’t come too soon! So many books to buy just to get to 9t.
I think it’s always a difficult position when you have privileged information.
I for one appreciate the constructive place that you guys are coming from. As much as the points frustrate me, i don’t want to listen to a 30 minute rant about it. I feel that our shared frustration is implicit, as members of the 40k community, and i don’t need to be reminded of that.
Please keep up the amazing content, the constructive approach and the growing plant infestation ^_^ Your content is a source of positivity in a time of mixed prosperity lol. love u guys x
Can the Chef 24hr special be live streamed please? Seeing chef go off on one about anything for the long would be amazing!
I really agree with what you guys have said about taking a step back regarding pts and rules, with how often we get FAQs and pts changes these days it shouldn’t take to long for everything to settle down to a nice level.
Honestly clicking on the link I was hoping to hear a highlights type of video. Instead it was a take a step back from the ledge video. Personally there are some baffling changes if you consider it on a by unit basis. But I think with this many units it had to be formulaic from a strategic perspective.The amount of time it would take to assess all of them individually would be staggering. So I would rather have a game that runs well and GW addresses any units that were disproportionately affected. Like I would rather you guys be critiquing… Read more »
I’m sorry cause I know you had nothing to do with it, but whoever thought it was a genius idea to raise gretchin 2 points per model needs to be repeatedly punched in the dick by wolverine. That is all.
See Chef, I let it out. It has been said.
Seriously though that is not a points increase that is even remotely proportionate to an edition reset. It was a giant F you to ork players specifically. It was a kneejerk reaction to grot shield and ppl bitching about it.
All the negative feelings and competitive disparities aside, I believe that we are living in a “golden age” for warhammer 40k and I am extremely happy to be a warhammer fan/player
Can’t wait to start playing 9th both matches play and crusade mode!!!
I watch for the fun and dont care about balance as Im not a player currently (or for a long time) but I would like to simply chime in and say I dont feel tabletop tactics has ever had a bias for GW.
I for one appreciate the positive behaviour and there is plenty of objective good-faith criticism to made the hobby better on this channel.
Keep strong, keep healthy and keep those reps coming lads!
Oh boy. I am mainly playing marines and Custodes and working on a Necron Force which will probably be among the first to get their update. My main opponent is playing Dark Eldar. I think this will be a rough time for both of us. :-s
But I gotta say, you are doing your best to hype me up for the crusade system. Maybe I will be checking it out.
From what you have said i was concerned when GW named playtesters that they would take loads of heat from “the internet” and ill informed individuals. I feel for ya all, I’ve been a member for years as i really like what you do and i will continue to be a member, keep on keeping on!!
I woke up at 8:09 this morning and I feel personally attacked.
Totally agree with you guys. There are a lot of strong reactions out there, especially if you don’t play marines. Yes it doesn’t entirely make sense penalising factions before they get a new codex but I am guess GW thought the new rules in PA will help balance this. My opinion is the new marine codex plus the rules in psychic awakening was too much over a short period of time BUT GW will work through it. Hopefully we will be in a much better place by this time next year
The points may be unbalanced and it may suck that things will take a while to even out but I think this year with CoVid has shown us that shit happens and we have to do the best with what we have. If you are just playing friendly games and with mates why not just use your own ‘house rules’. I play all sorts of different games with mates where we change things ourselves to make things either more fun or to even it out if we want to. GW aren’t going to come knocking on my door telling me… Read more »
I think we have been misunderstood. We are just trying to remain positive. We did say we think the points are wrong and have fed back to them appro priately. There is no point in my eyes in wallowing in negativity. We are aware we don’t work for them, but it’s getting tiresome being called things like shills etc. We have always been positive with how we approach our reviews, you only have to look back at them before we were playtesters to see this. the only thing that has changed is our relationship with GW. This seems to have… Read more »
While I understand that you don’t want to jeopardise your relationship with GW…you’re not employed by them, and should feel free to call them out when they make terrible decisions. And these points costs are an absolute shambles. They were blatantly cobbled together using some kind of formula with absolutely no consideration for unit power, and the idea that it’ll all make sense in 18 months when they finally release my codex is ridiculous. They’re just undoing all the good work that went into the previous CA and the idea that a multinational publically traded company couldn’t find the time… Read more »
Question: are the munitorum points indicative for what’s coming with the codices? (To the extend you know / can answer).
I just finished 30 deathwatch vets (mostly with sb/ss) and while DW as an army didn’t get shafted by the new points, the internal balance very much did and I basically have to buy a ton of primaris and shelf my (painstakingly acquired and converted) veterans… A wee bit salty here ?
I like the new game and that’s what it is a new game so we’re just have to wait a bit. Be nice to get a fixed points cost for my plague marines, past couple of years they were 19 then 16 now 15 maybe? Poor lads are getting a complex grandpa Nurgles giving hugs.
The shokk attack gun points change does feel like they meant to roll the gun into the model, then forgot to drop the guns points. A 15 point increase seems fair for a swingy model, but a 40point increase? Meep!
Chef no longer looks like Shaggy from Scooby Doo, huzzah! 🙂
Agree with most everything you guys said. These day’s I only have marines and necrons. On the one hand, marines have kind of been given the keys to the kingdom so I’m not worried about playing them at all, even with their points increases I feel like my lists will turn out fine. As for necrons, well, everybody knows the sad story of 8th edition necrons. My expectation for them and all their new releases is basically, “hey, it *HAS* to be better than what we had right?” Although for other armies in the local club, points have mixed reviews… Read more »
As a non-vocal minority. I like the game state. I like the new eternal war missions and secondaries, they are fun and better, IMO, than how ITC did them. I even like my GSC army.
Rules wise I am excited to play 9th edition… But points wise I am heavily disappointed, I started necrons in early 8th (because I love OP armies…. >.>) I remember waiting patiently for CA points drops and my psychic awakening… on top of getting NOTHING from psychic awakening I am now right back to paying 18 points for immortals I which I think was the pre-2018 or 2019 price point…If someone can explain how the new LoS stuff justifies my infantry going up the same points as an intercessor explicitly (3 points) I am open to listening… But it doesn’t… Read more »
you shouldn’t have to explain anything. You guys were put in a position to help the game and you did. Thank you for your “work” playing the game we all love, and doing your best to make it fun for everyone. As a long time fan of the channel and this game I for one appreciate your effort. Keep up the great work and always smile while rolling ones because after all it is the grim dark and those models wont be missed anyway.
This is all good stuff, but do you think there is a problem with the fact that we know the destination is good but we dont know the journey. If the journey isnt enjoyable for some armies and takes 3 years to get to the destination is that a good outcome of releasing a new edition?
Like some have said, i just dont understand the principle behind transitional pricing right now when it’s not a complete rewrite. cot things for where they are now and then when you do update a codices or whatever, then you change the points cost. I think the big problem behind gw’s practice here is the biannual changes when it should just be an ongoing practice, and with the app this is even more possible. Seems to me its all just so they can sell chapter approved
Regardless of what eventually happens with the points in 9th and where individual armies end up, thank you guys for this video. I can’t say how much I appreciate any call for reasonable, civil discussion and constructive commentary these days.
I think there is a lot a validity in peoples’ feeling of disappointment in GW with the most recent points adjustments, so thanks for holding space for that. You guys make me excited for where 9th is headed despite any initial misgivings. Thanks again for your hard work.
Thanks for your perspective guys. I really hope to points even out sooner than later. Having to wait that year to go from index to codex as a Necron player In 8th edition was a nightmare. I wouldn’t wish a gross points disparity on anyone, it just sucks the joy out of the game.
I’m playing my first game of 9th this weekend so I’ll start forming my own opinion of the missions and rules set soon.
BTW Chef, your choice of idiom was spot on with that idea not holding water.
Thanks for the vid and always glad to hear what you have to say. What I’d really like to know and what was mostly missing from this video is analysis on how the changes made in 9th actually affect the general play style for most armies, and how they change the emphasis on certain classes of units. Does Blast really make large units impractical, or is that offset by the changes to morale? How does the change in focus from killing enemies to capturing objectives change the way that you evaluate the core units for your army? To what extent… Read more »
The field manual points bomb has really popped my 9th ed enthusiasm balloon. It was a big yellow one with a smiley face and everything. The issue for me is that it shows an almost willful misunderstanding of their own game. 3 years invested in balancing the points (quite reasonably after CA19 in most cases) and all that has been binned in what appears to be quite a thoughtless reset. The final issue, is they want to charge us for the pleasure…!? Like many here I’m a long, long time fan of GW and am generally pretty price insensitive to… Read more »
Reading all the comments about 8th ed being balanced and 9th not. the salt… lololololololol.8th ed ..balanced? Can’t stop laughing at the comments
I mean yeah. As always, It’s interesting to hear you guys talk – however – I do feel you arent being honest with yourselves here. This is a remarkable turn for the worse, years of hard balance has just gone down the drain and for some inexpliccable reason (probably that they printed this version in 2019) they have given us what appears to me to be a early draft of the new points based on block-/rules based changes. I understand theres limits to what can be asked.. but It’s just that the quality of the balance is so low. The… Read more »
What is Tournament? Myth. Legend.
My favourite part is where it says “Text is now editable, double click to edit, uncheck before rendering”. BENJAMIN!!!!! MICHAEL!!!! 😀 😀 😀
While we work with GW as play testers we are in no way owned by them. We say what we think will happen.
Sure things may be better in the future, but that won’t not make things better now.
Maybe everything will work out with codex releases in the future and everyone will be happy with it. However this won’t make people happy now with an unbalanced game now and that’s what we have.
Guys, thanks for releasing this video. When the points were released I was among the surprised (in a bad way) and disheartened players. As a Sisters of Battle player, I actually have nothing to complain. They got off very well, with some points drops even for melta and flamer weapons! My good friend and main opponent plays Tyranids though and the disparity between our armies only increased because the new points are not being kind to the bugs. With my new codex, our games were already rather tough on him. I’m by no means a hardcore player and I play… Read more »
Wish you would release these as podcasts. So simple to do and massively increase reach. Just an idea.
Thanks to the both of you for addressing this issue, your words mean very much and I feel more inclined to wait with (cautious) optimism. I can also understand that they’ll release immediately the new points to balance the unit with the new size of the table. I know that here is my impatience talking, but the things that still gets to me are that they left the resdponsanbility to “placate” the community to you guys, and that they still haven’t shared their release plan for the new codices. Ok, I know, the rule books are still not even in… Read more »
My two main armies are Death Guard and Primaris so I’ve escaped a lot of the “WTF!?” kind of increases, but it looks like my Drukhari will stay in storage for now.
This was way better than I imagined, balanced and a really good take. And Im a mono ORK player so im just fully covered and rolled down a hill in a barrel filled with salt so thats saying something. Really a pitty they dropped the ball massivly on the points, luckly 9e core is soooooo damn good I¨ll just take it as a challenge, Gorkanauts forever ! : =
Chef! Your back! I was beginning to worry that you were going to be replaced permanently by that deranged homeless person.
Second post, because it just occurred to me – when they launch the app, we won’t need to deal with the delay in printing and shipping new codicies / points updates / chapter approved/ etc. across the world, will we? It will all be instantaneous, right?
### Wall of text warning, this got longer than planned ### <rant> I strongly disagree on the use of the ‘transitional period’ argument. For 8th edition it took 20 months for all of the named armies in the indices to get a codex (Genestealer Cults being the last, I am not counting Chaos Knights or Sisters here which came even later). That cannot be considered a ‘transitional period’, as it was over half the lifetime of that edition. If you bought a product and it did not work for the first X months, you would not call it a transitional… Read more »
Really sound conversation fellas, some good advice during this period of limbo we’re all in on and off the board. Chef, congratulations on the haircut. Bone, we love you, but Seal is never going to call. As a Raven Guard player, I totally appreciate how fed up everyone is by marines dominating new releases. Most of the new Indomitus models are not ones I would take (for fluff reasons) and I feel like they make things worse by always using the Ultramarines/Imperial Fists cookie cutter. Indomitus is NOT however the 9th ed. starter set / Dark Imperium equivalent. It’s a… Read more »