*NEW CODEX* Space Marines: The Good, Bad & Ugly | Warhammer 40,000 9th Ed Faction Focus
Spider October 8, 202014
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Bone and Chef sit down to go over the Good the Bad and the Ugly in the brand new Space Marine Codex!
*ATTENTION*- We briefly touch on some aspects of the Index Astartes and the FAQs released recently but a more in depth discussion will be coming for these armies as their Supplements are released.
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You made mention of not being able to use stuff in certain books, etc. How do I know what supplements and books I can use (Imperial Fist player). Mentioning not being able to use some blood angel and space wolf stuff, where is that written, etc.
The good rebalances are all things I agree with so far and I am willing to wait for supplements to fix the majority of bad things that are brought up. Good show guys. 🙂
I’m really looking forward to playing space marines with this new codex. There are so many new options to play around with. Even tactical marines! A squad of 5 with a heavy bolter and a SB on the sergeant is 105. Melta/combi-melta is 110. Those aren’t too shabby when compared against intercessors at 100. Other units that got overshadowed are viable too. Tor Garrodon matches up quite favorably with a chapter master now!
To answer the question about Hellblasters and how\why people use them, I use them because they came in my Dark Imperium box lol. But seriously I have 15 total now and I run them as a medium threat eliminator like say heavy infantry, smaller vehicles like Blight Haulers, land speeders, or a Bloat Drone, so my tanks can focus on the main tanks of the enemy. I will normally keep a captain and ancient near by for rerolls and so if one blows up he can shoot again. You guys often mention a unit when running down your lists and… Read more »
Guys I think you have to realize that Games Workshop is in an impossible situation. There most popular army by far is space marines. This means that they need to be at least decent because otherwise too many people will be upset. For the same reason it makes sense to add more models to the range to make a profit, they are a business after all. Now you have to give those models interesting rules so people buy them. At the same time you can not make the space marines over powered as this will upset the community at large.… Read more »
Wow that was a marathon not a sprint, well done guys! It’s a huge amount to process so I really appreciate you taking the time. I largely agree with your commentary and I’m just really looking forward to getting some game time with the new book. I really, sincerely hope this version sticks around for a decent lenth of time – min 36 months. The rate of book releases is a bit sickening in the last 4 or 5 years. Things I love Hopefully we can stop being the most OP faction now and everyone can go back to hating… Read more »
The Trans Strat remove for OG marines does seem harsh, Could they have not kept it but just for those units with core excluding Dreadnoughts. Also why have my Crimson lost the +1 in combat for outnumbered? again just very harsh
I just wish they would update the 3 yeard old guard and craftworld codexes before releasing the…8th space marine book in between.
Than you for the analysis, really great as always!
The only point of contention I have is about the Tactical marines being a little too expensive. I think them having access to rhino’s and especially drop pods makes them super competitive in a game that’s all about grabbing and holding objectives.
I disagree about spacewolves and have the exact opposite opinion as you. I think it looks GOOD on paper. But its the only chapter tactic that 100% puts the ball in your opponents court. You have no agency in whether or not you actually get to utilize it and a good player will play around it completely.
I think Deathwatch with firstborn could be one to watch as nothing else (so far) gets special issue ammo
Great video guys! I think the Hellblasters have a place in a Dark Angels list, since “Weapons from the dark age” stratagem gives +1 dmg to plasma weapons, hence dmg 3 plasma rifles with overcharge (or dmg 4 with the heavy option). They are pricey though and Eradicators are a thing as you stated.
I think if there was ever a time for GW to work through this awkward era between codex updates and supplements for 9th, it’s the one where a lot of us aren’t really able to go out and game in person anyway. In a way they lucked out with that, since they can work on getting as caught up as they can before things open up more fully sometime in early-to-mid 2021. Being told to wait until November stings a little less if you weren’t going to play much before then regardless. On Primaris jump assault units, Vanguard Vets now… Read more »
Agree with pretty much everything. Sad about aggressors, losing both abilities was too heavy handed imo, shoulda at least kept advance without penalty. Repulsors I think are both bad and ugly and it’s sad they’ve been so mediocre ever since they were released. ATVs being so ridiculous is both hilarious and probably not good at all lol. Eradicators are a very weird unit to me. I definitely understand they are becoming a problem, but I wouldn’t want to see them get nerfed as badly as aggressors. I’d happily pay some more points for them to still work the same, or… Read more »
As a Dark Angel player I am really looking forward to their new rules and seeing you boys put them to work. But also as a player I want their rules to be good, but not Iron Hands good that they are abused and then over-nerfed.
As you talk about with Hellblasters, it is such a tricky way to balance some things as they are either good and spammed, or just overcosted for their abilities and crap. Time will tell. Keep up the great work!
I take “bad” units as a challenge, and will be running some heavy hellblasters and stalker intercessors this weekend. We shall see!
I want the Techmarine rule your talking about, not for Space Marines obviously but for Admech 🤖 Make it happen GeeDubbz 😁
Great breakdown. Thanks chaps. Looking forward to the deathwatch one as they, IMHO, are one of the factions in the stickiest place from the context of how messy their index is especially.
I don’t understand why GW woke up one day hating Aggressors. Both special abilities, gone. No sense in it.
And yes, as a Primaris Raven Guard player… give me the jump packs and lightning claws. Admittedly the changes to first-born wounds and lightning claw attacks make a conversion project more interesting…
Im optimistic about the future. However, I wont be taking part in competitive events for at least 6 months – certainly not this side of christmas at any rate. It is one of the main issues with GWs release schedule… it takes forever for everything to get updated. In regard to ATVs, change it from biker to vehicle and you are sorted I think. Eradicators, no double tapping if you moved, regardless of “count as not moving” strats. Dark Angels and Deathwing will be interesting, but I do think it is being over hyped, especially I regards to pure DWing… Read more »
Honestly just giving the ATV thr vehicle keyword instead of biker keyword would fix quite a bit of the current issue with them. Wouldnt even need to change the points. Removes apothecary problem with them, otherwise I am weirdly fine with the apothecary. It gives more balance to the opponent being able to score well on bring it down against them. Flavor-wise it feels more correct, I mean, they have vehicle in their name! Also helps explain why they explode from a continuity point with the rest of the units that can explode. Opponents who have buffs against vehicles now… Read more »
With most of the marine chapters being rolled into one book and a few indexes out to help those who have a supplement on the way does this mean we are going too see a few battle reports featuring the dragons as space wolves for example?
Rough time to be a Deathwatch Player outside of friendly games. Got nothing in Psychic Awakening and then got crushed in the FAQ. They buffed a ton of weapons but nerfed the Frag Cannon for some reason? And then largely removed SIA from the game; including on the entire Primaris Range. Our entire chapter trait can be replicated by taking an HQ choice.
The only thing people seem to like is the ability to game ‘Combat-Squad’ing the Kill Teams in a gamey way. Hope to be proven wrong on the tabletop I suppose
What I really like about the books(from what I’ve seen, is it Saturday yet?) is the similar wording/universal rules such as Core, Objective Secured etc. And the structure seems much better overall. Points will always be off, and with rate of FAQ/CA in recent times it seems possible things will shake out again in the spring. Hopefully the ATV’s get FAQ’d before then. As a Dark Angel when the marines come out I am sad for the loss weapons of the dark age, my marines have been overheating plasma since 2nd ed, it’s what the lore demands! Excited for the… Read more »
Blood Angels had the OG vanguard veterans. Back in 3rd edition we could bring veteran assault marines.
1 small thought on Hellblasters. Literally the only potential decent way of running them is as DW. 5 intercessors and 5 Hellblasters gives you a fair amount to chew through before they start dying and they get ObSec.
But. And there is a big but… Things still do the job better. Especially with the gravis kill team… *cough* Oof…
I plan on trying it at least… 😅
Great chat guys. I will still bring Eradicators (but on 3 of the 9 I have) for friendly games – because i love the models. But I’ll also bring a squad of 5 Aggressors still, because I absolutely love the models. I’ll take your advice and stay clear of the murder buggy until it’s been CA’s to a more reasonable cost. So all in all I’m a happy Ultramarine player. One question on the Judicicar. I like him a lot, and have been running him around with 3 x Bladegaurd and 2 x Victrix (pending 5 man Bladegaurd squads being… Read more »
I do too, it would make saving wounds a pretty long process tho
I think the problem with Space Marines is this absurd 98 datasheets, it makes it very hard to balance, I’d say even impossible, because as a developper you’re going to try to make each one of them unique and have a role. Well I can’t see how, and what it’s doing is super large list of units that goes from superbad to supergood, the Eradicators are very good exemple, with all the anti-tank options how do you make them stand out from devastators, Las predators, Executionnors, etc. Let’s give them 24″ meltas that fire twice on the move, great you’ve… Read more »
I agree the FAQ was poorly thought out. GW knows a “warp flamer” is a flamer, just like a grey knight “incinerator” is a flamer. It’s just lazy. That doesn’t even touch on whoever is running Imperial Fists on the rules team and everyone hates him/her.
On the note of first born. They’re obviously becoming a liability. Yes the kind folks at GW are letting me use my models but a lot of the stratagems in the book don’t affect them. Which is a real kick in the dick.
Although it seems doom and gloom with the Space Wolves formating, I’ve happy with most of the changes. Blood Claws and Hunters are a lot better now, arguably better than Intercessors for the points. The Long Fang change is a bit disappointing but expected something to happen to them. I’m really looking forward to the supplement to see what we get to bring back the remaining flavour. Also I’ve seen that Bikers become Swift Claws for SW armies but don’t appear to get Bezerk Charge and Headstrong, is this something the supplement will fix?
I’m the first person to say that marines have been ridiculous recently, and needed a nerf, but this feels like the pendulum might have swung too far the other way. Is there some internal politics, some reason why after nearly 40 years of game design, GW can’t get this right? Peaks and troughs for the marines, ever and always. It’s got to be better for the game if there is solid internal balance AND external balance for the codexes. Sorry Space Marines players – your book might still turn out to be decent, and you needed a rebalance, but this… Read more »
Great talking points about the merits of the new changes as always gentlemen! I enjoy these discussions for I am an optimist and love changes to the hobby as long as they are fun for all. As for my thoughts on them you’ll have to excuse me as I chain my trusty power sword to my wrist and Deus Vult for the Emperor! I love the new changes as they apply to my personal army of Primaris Black Templars, one of the best being the new higher unit cap for blade guard. That, plus changes to our chapter tactics being… Read more »
Further along. Black Templars players don’t have that confidence that our index PDF is interim. It is written as if it’s all we are getting, and knowing our luck, it probably is. So not having a Super Doctrine is probably going to hurt us for a while!
Great breakdown though I feel how people do comparative analysis is skewed upon making your points back and I think that that is a bit of a trap. Its like comparing between codexes. The comparative analysis should be role based, what can I do with this unit in ways that are obvious and not obvious. Can it be a distraction, can it block line of sight with it, or can it help get things across the board. And if one doesn’t, what about more than one? A land raider may not work but what about 3? People need to play… Read more »
Thanks for the vid Guys. Few questions:
– What’s your take overall on storm shield changes? What’s the use on a captain with Iron Halo for exemple except giving +1 normal save, is it really worth it? Same for Custodes
– What about all the gladiator variant and the anti tank speeders, any thoughts?
Cheers
Thanks for the thoughts! If white scars are still decently playable after I finish my t sons army (next year, likely), that is my next build. I just love the mobility and the look so I have this on pre-order.
Is the Imperial Fists Super Doctrine is Trash-Tier Ugly? On round one, S7+ Heavy Weapons get +1 against vehicles and buildings… I guess there is a reason to take those hellblasters after all… amiright? 😉
This was really, really brilliant. You did a very good analisys of the situation, and I’m with you in almost everything you said. I also think that marines are obviously still good, I would only comment on a few points (disclaimer: I only play Primaris.. you know, Cawl fanboy and everything): ERADICATORS: you are right, they are massively powerful right now. I could also agree on TOO powerful. But if you are playing only Primaris, like I do, you don’t have any real alternative as an antitank. All the Primaris tank are worst than bad, they are insulting, and the… Read more »
This is all good, but what we really need, is Jericho’s backstory
If I would have to guess Lawrence was play testing the Primaris Jumppack Units and had quite a blast. Then decided to do his Flesh Tearers army. After realising that no Jumppacks Units will get released any time soon he put that project on a hold.
@Lawrence Tell me that I am wrong
Nice Summary. Really agree with the ATV being so much better than the Stormspeeder. Was really looking forward to get some Gunboats for my Phobos army. Now I am stuck with the decision to shoot myself in the foot or switch to the ATVs. What are your thoughts on Reivers? Seems like they got the short end of the stick, again. -1AP on Blade and Carabine would be quite important. @Chef would you please point out the rules team that shrike should get +1 A bc of dual claws. And that his Warlord trait is way too special. Even so… Read more »
So as a Blood Angel player, I’m in limbo. I love that Sanguinary Guard got an extra attack, are -1 to hit and a bit cheaper. I love Dante’s (future) potential, Corbulo, Astorath. What I dislike is losing my psychic powers, making Mephiston and Libby Dreads useless for now, the massive points increase on Death Company but no Forlong Fury or Descent of Angels strats.
I’m having a hard time building a list I can make work at the moment. But I’m sure I’ll figure something out.
Great run down gents!
As a Deathwatch player I´m just going to wait a month or two. I see no point using the FAQ too list build as of now. (eventhough it was quite a chonky FAQ for DW)
Solid discussion guys! Good work on this one 🙂 A lot of good obviously, some very warranted nerfs on things like impulsors and chapter master. And for the good of the game, space marines neaded to be brought down, It’s just such a shame that the internal balance is so skewered. The Eradicators together with BGV’s sours the whole codex for me, so incredibly powerful. Flyers are still horrible. They are ineffecient and they suffer because they are flyers, as they cant hide. The -1 dosen’t begin to make up for the fact they are T6, 3+, 10w and always… Read more »
Interesting and balanced insights as ever folks. Eradicators and the ATV’s will be all over the tables, for now. Even with these two super star units, marines feel a little tamer now, which can only be a good thing!
PS: I hear you’re inline for the new L’Oréal adverts Chef? Any truth to this rumour?
I’m not a Marine player (well not for 40k anyway) and I’m someone that’s built up a fairly decent sized Necron army (3k and still adding to it) due to the pandemic, let’s just preface this first because that will colour my view here. I think the big take away for me is that outside of the outliers (ATV/Eradicators) there’s nothing in this book that makes me really go ‘yeah I can’t deal with that’. There’s a lot less re-rolls going around from the army, which is good for the game. There looks to be a lot less of a… Read more »
Great voxcast gents. Love it. Personally I’d have put Scouts in the Bad section. Now elites and only one wound and a 4+ save they are like a bad version of Scions with worse weapon loadouts and crappy models! I’m struggling to think why you’d ever field them now?
I think Eradicators should be capped at one Unit per Army and maybe get the double tap only if at least 3 modells shoot at the same unit. I think then they would still be in every army but not as spammed and it would be easier to get rid of them.
Such a messy transition from 8th to 9th. UGLY! I agree with this.
It’s a shame big model syndrome is still a thing, does not bode well for Primarchs or big gribblys.
I think Grey Knights & all the Chaos Marines will benefit more from additional wounds than clean marines.
Are the supplements more about flavour than stat sheets/mini codex? All I can glean from this video is that they will possibly have some stratagems in them and relics maybe?