T’au Empire – The Good, Bad & Ugly | Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus
Spider July 30, 202010
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Chef and Bone sit down to discuss the T’au Empire after the Munitorum Field Manual and where they fit into 9th Edition.
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I watched this when it first came out but am circling back after a few months exposure to 9th and other factions. T’au has always been my first love and go to army. It is sad that, from a purely competitive POV, the codex gets subjectively boxed into a 1 or 2 build deal. Playing castles is so utterly boring and anti-fluff I would avoid any list that went that way. In 8th, it was incredibly effective so for those players there was little incentive to go a different way. This is especially true in ITC where there wasn’t any… Read more »
My stab at a Marker Light Reform Bill would be something like: 1 gives Re-roll 1s to hit, 2 is Ignore cover & Destroyer & Seeker Missiles hit on 4+, 3 is +1 to hit, 4 is Ignore -1 to hit from terrain, Destroyer & Seeker Missiles hit on 2+, 5 is +1 to wound. Alternately having the ability at some point to negate any minuses to hit would be good. Perhaps they could be like tokens again and the player could chose the effect they want? P.S. I actually DO want an hour long video where you two talk… Read more »
@BBone im looking at this for no marker lights. not sure it will work but…. ++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (T’au Empire) [97 PL, -1CP, 1,999pts] ++ + Configuration + Sept Choice . Custom Sept: Hybridised Weaponry, Turbo-jets + Stratagems + Emergency Dispensation (1 Relic) [-1CP] + HQ + Commander in XV8 Crisis Battlesuit [7 PL, 154pts]: 2. Through Unity, Devastation, Advanced targeting system, Cross-linked stabiliser jets, 3x Cyclic ion blaster, Warlord, XV8-02 Crisis Iridium battlesuit Commander in XV8 Crisis Battlesuit [7 PL, 154pts]: Advanced targeting system, 3x Cyclic ion blaster, XV8-02 Crisis Iridium battlesuit Commander in XV8 Crisis Battlesuit [7… Read more »
Not really a fan of Tau, and may be I missed it, but what about Vespid and Kroot? Are they still playable, and if so, is there now a place for them in match play to give you the mobility and fighty-ness missing
great video , hope to see other armies soon! i hope also that in 9th edition in the competitive setting we will not see only 3 or 4 spammed units but more varied lists!
thanks guys for the video!
That was great !
I agree with the things you said. I think tau are in a pretty though spot at the moment and I think the overwatch thing as you say is kinda annoying from a game flow perspective etc, but I also think it’s kind of a band aid solution for tau, if they did not get it, I think the would probably be the worst army in the game right now. Another thing (a part from markerlight rework as you mentioned) I think would be cool to change, would be to get rid of savior protocols completely and move drones from… Read more »
Love this guys. Can’t wait for more
Hey guys, loving your thoughts on Tau. I have mentioned this before and i will mention it again… Vespid Stingwings! 70pts for 5 Fly Infantry, Teleport Strike (Plunge) 14″ move, 10 18″ str5 -2ap 1dam shots. Yes, only a 4+ save, but you just drop them in safely. Yes, the models are not great (i am not a fan) but checks these out https://puppetswar.eu/rotor-wing-packs.html throw those on Strike Teams, BAM, “Stingwings” No, they will not make every list a winning army, but they provide much needed utility for board control.
Markerlight system > Aura System, aura system is just easier for the rules guys to make characters have notable abilities.
Totally agree on Marker Lights however I disagree with the overwatch comment at the moment, if you take this away from them, what is left really?
The reality is they need a full Codex re-write on the mechanics but meanwhile their effective tools are super limited and if you remove one I guess it becomes un-playable competitively speaking (and I don’t mean ultra-competitive … just to compete at your local gaming store)
I mean for example just make crisis suits BS3 to just match the fluff, how complicated is that ?
Markerlights are definitely a tax, especially on Pathfinders. They need some way to be survivable, given that they have no inherent lethality. Blowing 110 points on ten Guardsmen-equivalent is a huge sink made even worse if you’re after more than one unit of them. That’s ~5% of your army just to make a single enemy unit more vulnerable for one round of shooting. TBH I didn’t see the problem with the old way of how Markerlights worked, where each marker could be ‘spent’ to achieve a particular outcome (+1BS, remove cover etc). Particularly given the way you can’t improve a… Read more »
Bone, can you do me a favor and run a dual Bork’an Yvahra list with 20+ shield drones? I know it wasn’t super competitive in 8th, but I feel like you’ll have a lot more success with that list not having to worry about markerlights and just advancing drones. When the Y’Vahras push out, their flamers now have an 18″+d6″+14″ threat range (due to move, advance and shoot) which covers the entire board effectively. Keep 2 cheap commanders near them along with plenty of drones to absorb the big guns and try to keep drones behind obscured with the yvahra… Read more »
Love the video. As someone prettyy new to the game and with not many opponents to play against i find your expertise to be a critical factoer in my theory hammering and mock battles. Watching this video inspired me to make a stealthb inspired list and I am interested to hear what you fine gentlemen think. Vanguard Detachment -3CP Custom Sept: Hybridised Weaponry, Up-gunned Cadre Fireblade 2x Markerlight Drones Commander Shadowsun Dispersed fusion blasters (Double Kauyon or one Kauyin and one Montka to help accuracy) 3 x 6 StealthSuits Each with: 4 bursts and 2 fusions 2 markerlight drones Shas’ui… Read more »
You’re absolutely right gentlemen, Tau are in a rough spot. Long, long time Tau player here and I haven’t seen Tau in as bad a state as this ever. I started playing them in 2007, and I’m so frustrated with the army at the moment that I’ve started selling some of my 28,000 point army. I also play Necrons and Sisters – at least Sisters feel decent to play currently. Paying 390 points for 3 broadsides who will usually get one turn of shooting (hitting on 5s) before getting tagged in combat and switched off for the game is frustrating.… Read more »
For what it’s worth, my first game of 9th was actually 18 Stealth Suits and 3 Ghostkeels. It surged ahead on points for the first two turns, but then the same issue with Ghostkeels and Stealthsuits reared it’s head: they don’t kill enough, and this was with Upgunned and Hybridized Weaponry to try and max out my AP and threat ranges. They just aren’t efficient/durable enough to mainline an army.
Granted it was one game and I don’t pretend to be an expert, but with their point increases I don’t think they have enough to pull out a win competitively.
Do Thousand Sons next :D. I feel like they are in a very tough position because how most people think the meta will develop and I would love to hear your thoughts about that!
A Chef/Bone Rant! You guys raise some very good points. Sadly, I think you will have to wait until the new codex. Currently you’re shackled to the 8th edition one which really misrepresented Tau as this static army that provides a player almost no incentives to move. I think with the way 9th works, an army that castles in the DZ will kill stuff but lost the game by 40-50 points.
Fingers crossed Tau get a good rethink because an effective mobile force is more interesting for both players in the game than a gun line.
I hate it! But it is what it is…
taunar is the answer lol bs 2, shots in combat
I have noticed you guys have said castle style armies struggle in 9th ed due to the new mission formats. Is there a possibility or running a couple castle style lists (tau or otherwise) to visualize the difficulties that you guys believe the play style will face?
Yay Roku stuff!!! Been waiting for abit for more Roku!
I like the format for these discussions. I think those dedicated sections will lead to some interesting conversations about armies. Nice to start with Tau they are what got me to make the jump to 40k from fantasy. I’ve always hated the Tau only operate in one phase notion. I think they should have two strong phases shooting and movement. The loss of fly and shooting really hurts. So the transition from 7th-8th-9th we saw a couple things which really hurt the ability to be mobile, besides riptides outshining everyone else. From 7th – 8th we lost JSJ and did… Read more »
Really interesting discussion I can’t wait to listen to more. A few points on the discussion. 1. The point about their fluff. I realize the fluff has always been ‘mobile warfare’ but outside of Jump Shoot Jump (which really just chained your Crisis Teams to a piece of terrain with good lines of fire) and Fish of Fury (which was a cheesy mobile bunker you set down where it could rapid fire most of the board) Tau haven’t really ever been that ‘mobile’ an army. And frankly a gunline ISNT against fluff anyway. In the fluff, the Kauyon is setting… Read more »
The discussion was very interesting and I feel both of you made some good point and reasonable objections at the current situation. I have a feeling that the new rules might be skewed into forcing the Tau to play as castle, and as a primary AdMech player I can attest it’s not really all that fun, for neither of the players involved. That said, personally I don’t feel you should draw all those comparisons with the Marines. True, they’re still very strong, but in the last few months they received a bunch of (mostly deserved) nerfs so I have the… Read more »
Not a tau player. Really not interested in their rules.
So chaos armies have cultists which are meat sheilds and dont have access to endless rerolls,
why don’t tau players run kroot for a similar role?
I’ve literally never, Ever. seen a battle report or list which uses kroot or vespids etc.
Flood them with cheap trashy bodies. If £€$ isnt an issue is a list like that possible?
What are your thoughts on the Tau’nar list Richard Siegler has been using a little? Similarly do you think things like Hammerheads (whilst fundamentally flawed) might see more use? Given the problems you outlined with the markerlight system, I feel like there is a significant advantage to units with higher BS.
Excellent discussion and well formatted. I particularly like the effort to bring Chef and Bone together without breaking social distancing protocols. 🙂 I want to thank you for pointing out the heavy weapons rule w/ Broadsides. My 8e hangover prevented me from recognizing the fact that the Heavy penalty applies to infantry only. As someone who uses a full complement of Broadsides as the army’s only heavy support option, their newfound ability to move and shoot without penalty is a huge boon. What are your thoughts on incorporating more T’au flyers in lists? I think the 9e rules can make… Read more »
Excellent analysis, I pretty much agree with everything. “3 Ghostkeels and 18 Stealth Suits” is literally my list (well 15 Stealth Suits, can avoid problems with coherency and Balst then), I find starting them in the middle of the table is brilliant, you now have board control before the game has even started. I had been running them with Turbo Jets and Up Gunned but found that the extra movement wasn’t needed so switched Turbo Jets for Gifted Pilots. Reroll 1’s to wound on the Ghostkeels is very useful but as you’ve pointed out in this video I’m running into… Read more »
I really do hope the new codex swings Tau back around to being a mobile assault force.
I agree with Chef on this, I think the way to go at the moment is to just sack off market lights. Maybe a couple to try and get reroll ones, but stacking to try and get that +1 to hit is just too costly.
Think of it as if the turns are happening simultaneously. They aren’t sat there doing nothing, they’re moving up and shooting whatever they targeted in their turn. Then suddenly they get blind sided by another unit.
Awesome work in the split screen for the guys together!
Kudos guys, when this rolls out for the lists, it’ll be like there is no pandemic while we grab a slice of our entertainment!!
Entertainment as escapism, the best!!
Completely agree there are some inherent problems but mid mid tier to top of mid is not a ruff spot I think there are a few army’s as stuff stands that are only competitive with one or two builds, there are though army’s that aren’t competitive at all. Tau have had more time than a lot as a strong army, would it be a bad thing if someone els got some time in that spot ? On a positive everything feels like it’s becoming more balanced as things move on, fingers crossed everyone gets some ! Great to hear your… Read more »
Great video guys! I picked up T’au in 8th as a dabble into gunlines (third army). It’s become by far my favourite faction for both fluffy and competitive games but instantly disliked the static castle style. So I’ve been running highly mobile MSU sa’cea with good results in competitive games. Now looking at triple ghostkeel and bulking up my stealth teams (I think they are too expensive for 18 though). I agree markerlight mechanic is knackered, particularly now that reliable fireblades / f marksmen aren’t safe in the back field. Be interested to know what you think it should change… Read more »
I’d love to see more of this – it doesn’t have to be a rant, but a candid discussion of the pros, cons and dubious design decisions of factions was interesting to listen to. I don’t play, or even play against Tau and I think the fact that you guys play pretty much everything gives you a really balanced view on things.
I really believe that GW don’t know how to write a T’au ruleset that works with the base rules and also reflects the fluff. T’au are so skewed towards shooting to the exclusion of everything else that it is difficult to make them work without going to one extreme or another. Personally speaking I would make Markerlights a D3 blast weapon – with an additional ability where blast also affect vehicles/monsters with 10+ wounds. So you have a better than average chance of getting more Markerlights on large targets (either infantry blobs or tanks etc.). I don’t think this would… Read more »
I love that you guys are doing these. It’s great, even if you don’t play the faction, as you get a feel for what what is across the table from you in the new edition. With so many factions in the game, that is really valuable.
Love the rants!
I’ve not played Tau since 4th. I don’t think I own a riptide. But watching Bone play I’ve always had issue with drones. I feel they should be an upgrade to a unit rather than a separate unit. 10 fire warriors escorted by a shield drone. Or a heavy gun drone for more dakka. Or a marker drone. Which incidentally should hit on a 2+ and then give a benefit to that unit from the following table: +1 to hit, reroll 1’s, ignore cover. Drones should be a 10 or 15 point upgrade to a unit.
Really enjoyed this, i love your battle reports obv. but i also love hearing you guys froth about 40k as it is, i know you’ve had some feedback about positivity, i think you got the balance absolutely right here. a wonderful vid to get me through my 2nd morning coffee! cheers!x
I don’t play tau but hear me out, this is how I would fix markerlights – Markerlights no longer a weapon, now a wargear option, and.. Any model armed with a markerlight gains the following ability: Once per battle round, instead of shooting, any model with a markerlight may target an enemy unit with a markerlight. Any friendly unit that attacks the enemy unit, targeted with the markerlight, gains +1 to hit and wound, ignore cover and re roll 1’s to hit. Lasts until the start of friendly tau player next turn. Once an enemy unit has been targeted, no… Read more »
Random thought. What if marker lights were utilised in the command phase? Allowing pathfinders to move, and then use the carbines when they need to shoot. (Can’t think of a time that my pathfinders have needed to use them)
Love these sort of videos, really helpful. More please!
Massive thank you for the split screen. You have no idea how happy this makes me 😀
Are we going to see this for the other factions commonly played by Tabletop Tactics? If so these little series will be good and insightful.