Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: Necrons – The Good, Bad & Ugly

Avatar Tabletop Tactics August 6, 202013  70 13 Likes

Chef and Bone turn their attention to the Necrons and how they fare in a post-9th Edition world.

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Val Peterson
Val Peterson
2 months ago

What are your plans for this sort of thing as the new Codices are released? Play a few games first? First impressions on read-through? That sort of thing…

Last edited 2 months ago by Val Peterson
cameron singe
cameron singe
3 months ago

I have had good success with the plasmancer, give him lighting field and place him in a squad of lynch guard and he will spam mortal wounds like there is no tomorrow

Colby Pryor
Colby Pryor
3 months ago

So then problem I see is that most people try and kill a lot of stuff with necrons. That’s a mistake. Necrons are designed to make people’s turns irevelant. What you need to worry about are the things that you cnat recover from as necrons. Those being -3 or more ap. Straight damage, and great close combat. Close combat is easy, your close combat units are designed to block those units and get rid of them from touching your lines. The good ap and the straight damage stuff is the stuff you need to deal with as quickly as possible.… Read more »

Gustav Landen
Member
Gustav Landen
3 months ago

I did not know gw said on stream they’re remaking reanimation protocols, but when reading the wording of the +1 rule on the new reanimator, it made me think that it probably will change in the new codex 🙂

Michael Whiffin
Michael Whiffin
3 months ago

Out of curiosity how would you guys look at repairing the reanimation mechanics? For example I was thinking maybe give a destroyed unit a 4+ roll and if passed roll reanimation for the models again. Something to mitigate the kill them and forget them. Have you guys had any similar ideas?

Orumin
Orumin
3 months ago

.

Last edited 3 months ago by Orumin
Ben Price
Ben Price
3 months ago

interesting points, i agree some areas need work. What do you think of a 2000point list i have been having some relative fun and success with in the new edition for the last couple of games though? Indomitus overlord, Cryptek x2 both with thralls. 2 x 5 imortals (any weapon), 1×10 warriors (any weapon) 2 x 9 Lychguard, 1 night bringer, 1 deceiver 1 x 5 wraiths, 1 x 3 swarms 1 x transcendent ctan currently playing around with dynasty and relics but its down to taste, i like the crypteks to have some extra bang with weapons as they… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by Ben Price
Chris K
Member
Chris K
3 months ago

Love the videos you guys put out but maybe I’m overthinking but it seems like there is too much ‘ugly’ in the two videos so far. Can maybe the format be changed on what you guys would bring to be a ‘solid list’, I do not disagree with what you’re both saying, having just came back from a tournament here 0-2 with necrons I feel the pain. But I really respect how good you all are at the hobby (maybe the fan in me) and would love to see more of how to make it work rather than why it… Read more »

Scopedog
Member
Scopedog
3 months ago

I feel like Games Workshop is slipping back into it’s bad old ways, and 9th in many ways feels closer to the ****show of 7th than the brave new world of 8th. Until the second marine dex I really felt like they were trying, and the imbalanced units were mostly an accident as there was no real rhyme or reason to it. Why were wave serpents (a 15 year old model) amazing, but the venomcrawler (a then brand new unit) absolutely awful? And there was that period post Castellan nerf where it felt like it probably the most balanced the… Read more »

Michael Richter
Member
Michael Richter
3 months ago

There was a time when I subscribed to TT when there was less complaining and more fun about the hobby. I must admit that I started watching other shows about what changed concerning armies in 9th, not because you are not right in a certain way but where the spirit of a new edition and the overall tactics are more focused. ??‍♂️

Carl Jette
Carl Jette
3 months ago

I had an idea that i thought sounded great for fluff and gameplay, if GW did the new reanimators with a “Tervigon” mechanic, if they could actually create squads of warriors, it would make them attractive at least different than a Cryptek who right now is cheaper and better

Warsmith Magoo
Warsmith Magoo
3 months ago

Great review guys! I love the faction focus videos. Just a suggestion for the ugly part of the video, perhaps you can go over certain units or builds that can be either poor, disgustingly good or downright broken. The ugly can be good or bad! See what I did there?! 🙂

Noah Bergman
Member
Noah Bergman
3 months ago

I was totally that weird kid. I think my freshman year of high school I was on the basketball team, wore skater jeans, but still had shirts with animals on them. Got great grades and had no girlfriend (obviously). Maybe I should go buy some Necrons…

Andrew Eller
Andrew Eller
3 months ago

On the topic of not liking old paint schemes Chef i highly recommend just collecting the same army from scratch again. Building is one of my favorite parts and stripping paint is a lot of work. I just put the old models in storage or on the shelf.

Georg
Georg
3 months ago

I found it quite interesting, but I think the significant internal imbalance of the Codex is even more problematic than non-working RP. Like, any Necron player I see, except for myself, runs DDAs, Wraiths, Immortals and Destroyers and it is SOOO boring. In addition, they should really do much more with the cryptek schools. This, IMHO, is especially true because you don’t really get the feeling that you are using a hyper-advanced species. Like, you just shoot the enemy with guns, or run at them with robots. Some more interesting mechanics would not go amiss. I’m thinking of e.g.”draw a… Read more »

Zeruel90
Zeruel90
3 months ago

Always enjoy your in depth breakdowns guys. Fair to say there is more “Bad” than the others, as far as the old 8th codex goes 🙁 I did the exact same thing Chef, sat down and wanted to make a list with the Indomitus units and wasn’t happy with any combination I tried. Sadly came to the conclusion I don’t feel like playing them at all with current dex. Still nothing to really get excited about until our new book, but October is a long wait to hope the faction turns around. Everyone hope together that that shiny new October… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by Zeruel90
Outbrake
Outbrake
3 months ago

things to account for: this was clearly filmed without the confirmed October release date for the Codex. The leaks of the dynasty traits aren’t taken into account because they are “leaks”. Also the addition\leak of “protocols” which nobody knows anything about. Chef is absolutely right about RP on all accounts. I disagree that the plasmancer is bad. IMO he fills the mortal wound gap. Another leak shows the Doomstalker being D6 shots and D6 damage just like the Doomsday ark, which is BAD, just as chef said about random damage and shots weapons. If this is the case and these… Read more »

Bluepuffoflogic
Bluepuffoflogic
3 months ago

You didn’t mention that the Obelisk, the worst model in all of 40K, went. Up. In. Points!!? Not that anyone is concerned because it has such terrible rules, but man GE just doesn’t want to sell that model apparently. Great breakdown of the army under pre-codex 9th. I really thing the re-work of reanimation protocols will make or break Necrons in this edition. Maybe their is a way it can redeem the reanimator? I want to field the model because it is just so cool looking but it is just as bad as the spyder has been. Worse because it’s… Read more »

Philip Leo
Member
Philip Leo
3 months ago

I really wish you hadn’t done a mega negative faction focus on one faction that we know will have one of the first (if not THE first) codex released.

Santiago Véjar
Santiago Véjar
3 months ago

I believe that part of the tax you pay for these bonuses also has to do with the special rules that depend on your opponents and rules that are not affected by your opponent, in this case: reanimation protocols and doctrines

SpaZz
Member
SpaZz
3 months ago

Excellent points dudes, especially in regards to paying point premiums for “potential.” When I started getting into Necrons 5 years ago, my buddy hit the nail on the head when he said “Necrons are xenos version of space marines. You have a bit a melee, a bit of decent shooting, they can be tough or fast, but they are the masters of no one play-style.” Forward to now though, Necrons seem to be left way behind and have become less of a “jack of all trades” army to one that is straight up outclassed by most other armies. Most other… Read more »

glazeeveryday
Member
glazeeveryday
3 months ago

I really like the concept of this video format. I think they would benefit more from a planned discussion. The first video felt somewhat organized but was also the first one. This one felt closer to a full blown rant. I don’t mind rants about topics or specific points but when you combine it with, what felt like stream of conscious, it was a difficult to stay engaged. Might be worth sticking to the proposed format. Good. Bad. Ugly. Outlining what points under each topic and then start by telling the audience the “agenda” for the video. Makes you commit… Read more »

ghostvalley
Member
ghostvalley
3 months ago

Played about 9 games against necrons since the new edition drop ( wife plays crons ) and I have to agree with all of this. Destroyers still kill what they target, but now they get to do that once, as once I tag them I can just keep re tagging them in combat ad nasuem. The arks suffer tremendously as they were already streaky with shots and damage and a 4+ save. It was their potential to ignore damage that made them annoying as an opponent. Now I can neutralize them with a nuisance charge and not even have to… Read more »

Dean Brereton
Dean Brereton
3 months ago

Necrons and Necron players will always be top tier for me in terms of my hobby experience when I started WH40K, as someone who joined in 8th playing Marines when they were pretty bad/average vs. My Necron mate was top fun learning the game, I hope they improve vastly

Geoffy
Geoffy
3 months ago

Thanks for the vid guys. Gonna echo some of the other sentiments here that until we have the new codex we really can’t say much about the Necrons other than they kinda stink still. Hopeful the new book makes them a higher tier threat with lots of options when it comes to list building. I’m a Necron player for my primary army and ran them in several tournaments locally last year and it got stale having to take the same things. I really think chef hit the nail on the head when he talks about reanimations hitting us cost-wise on… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by Geoffy
Christian Hellicar
Christian Hellicar
3 months ago

I was really struggling to know what to do with the Necrons. The Indomitus models looked so cool, but I never really “got” what the Necrons were about and painting 36 models with leadbelcher, a black wash, then silver hihlights, some green and gold didn’t really interest me. Then I saw Midwinter Minis’ Makhiban dynasty own-brew and I’m stealing it. I’ll be running them as a hoard army, just for narrative in a “defend the fort” type scenario. Getting extras for a wave after wave of gruesome, ghoulish sci-fi horror. Which I think will be really cool. Other than that,… Read more »

GoGoGlenno
GoGoGlenno
3 months ago

quick question, which is preferable from a Tabletop Tactics perspective, watching free view stuff on here or on YouTube directly? does it make a difference?

Matthew Biro
Matthew Biro
3 months ago

I was torn watching this. Being honest this feels like a misstep. Not on the level of certain other channels on YouTube declaring 9th as a shooting edition with only the core rules out pre indomitus release BUT I don’t know whether to be worried because the codex is not going to cut the mustard or this is just offloading on the fact that necrons were not always fun to make work in 8th and got nothing faction wide from psychic awakening. I really hope this is not chef offloading now because he has seen the codex and it is… Read more »

Vincent
Vincent
3 months ago

Hello,
Why make a Necron review now whilst we know new codex drops in October and that there will be a new doctrine-like mechanic in it and, probably a lot of other change?
I don’t think this review is well timed unfortunately. A review for another faction would probably have been more useful.
Sorry :/

DelinquentBunny
DelinquentBunny
3 months ago

I’m hoping with the new codex drop reanimators have a battlefield wide “+1 to reanimation roll” that stacks. So to start with you are reanimating on 2+. On top of this a strat 1 or 2cp return one destroyed unit to the battlefield at full strength.

You guys hit it beautifully. Necrons should be a hyper resiliant, short range army. You get one turn of shooting at them before hell is unleashed. But…. thats Death Guard.

Lofwyr
Lofwyr
3 months ago

I had to pull the trigger on Necrons because they’re sooooo cheap to buy right now. Paid like 80 bucks for 1200 points. Is that a good army? No, probably not, but that’s still super cheap to put something fun on the table in small games. Just legions of warriors, mostly.

Ben H
Ben H
3 months ago

It’s good to hear the same concerns in this video as I’ve had, and as have been discussed at length on the Necrontyr discord.

Am I correct in thinking this was filmed prior to the glimpses of the new dynasties? If so, what do you think of those as setting the tone of the army moving forward? Similarly the new build instructions and abridged datasheets for the Spyder and Lychguard/Praetorians?

Jason Belsha
Jason Belsha
3 months ago

Necrons are in a weird position where we aren’t forced to take Sautekh to keep accuracy on our vehicles so list building opens up to explore other dynasties. Nephrekh and Novokh jump out to experiment now that we got some more melee options. Specially with Skorpekh Lords and Implacable Conqueror. Immortals taking the backseat opens the way for Warriors to flood our lists, suddenly I’m taking 60 warriors and still have room for the goodies I need to stay in a fight, the only support being a chronometron cryptek. The Reanimator is indeed a sour note from Indomnitus but it’s… Read more »

boothyp
boothyp
3 months ago

When each 9th codex drops, you should do a series with however plays them taking them for 5-6 battles in a row, either trying options, but preferably building and refining a good list………
Although, whoever thought it was a good idea to give the full primaris army to Lawrence and his bag of weighted red gems dice needs thier head looking at, except it was probably the Spider himself, well played sir……. 😉

Last edited 3 months ago by boothyp
Tropic Thunder
Tropic Thunder
3 months ago

Very informative discussion, guys. I don’t play Necrons and have considered them an option, but never pulled the trigger for the very reason you both called out: I didn’t feel that I could do what I wanted to do with them without sacrificing something big in return. I know this is too little too late what with the 9e codex coming out, but this idea triggered when Chef mentioned the fluff of an inexorable army that keeps getting back up and how it’s not currently realized with the resurrection protocols as written. I think a suitable fix for it that… Read more »

Alex Andersson
Alex Andersson
3 months ago

I do appriciate these videos, I liked the first one better as that felt more like a discussion. The first 20 minutes of this is mainly chef talking. I do hope Lawrence makes a show every now and then aswell. Reanimation protocols is a difficult one to balance, It’s also a exceptionally unfun rule to play against. It’s always been swingy and oppressive. Likewise, Marines are dependent on having lots of free rules because their inherent profiles are shit. T4, 3+ and T7, 3+ is not in my mind very strong unless you point them so they become hordelike, which… Read more »

CMO
CMO
3 months ago

You’ve hit the nail on the head with this one gentlemen. Necrons have access on paper to huge spikes of damage and ability to reanimate, and in practice it’s all just mediocre. They’ve been paying for the potential in the army for 3 years without any reliable way of realising it. I’ve run all the Indomitus units in my lists for the last couple of weeks, and after 6 games, I’m starting to just leave them out. Chef, your instincts on the skorpech stuff are spot on: they’re fragile, and a huge target. Reanimators are abject, and plasmancers don’t really… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by CMO
Michael Thorley
Michael Thorley
3 months ago

As a Necrons player, I’m personally really looking forward to running illuminor szeras with cryptothralls, an overlord and a royal warden at the heart of 2 or 3 immortal units as a “core” to an army, I think if played well this could pose a big threat to mid board while other faster and/or heavy hitting units flank the sides to really offer up threats on multiple fronts, give your opponent the chance to make the wrong call and be ready to snap back

boothyp
boothyp
3 months ago

Now, ideas time……. Why not just change re-animation to something like, rolls a single dice for each model destroyed in the previous battle round, on a 4+ they get back up and make your opponent cry…. Something like that anyway, I’m obviously not a rules writer…. If a unit is wiper, lay one model on its back to mark where they were, if the location of where they were is filled, as close as possible within 3″, if that not possible, the models cannot be returned. If your opponent moans about where you return the models, push them back 3mm,… Read more »

Inspector Gadget
Inspector Gadget
3 months ago

Most of the armies are in a tough spot right now and the points are all over the place. Some armies aren’t even made for 9th Edition because they lack the main capability of scoring points: i.e. objective secure (Imperial Knights/Chaos Knights). I can’t figure what GW will do against the codex power creep this time. It will take at least three years until every army will get their new codex and by the time the last army got their codex, the first ones released will be unplayable outdated. Is GW really thinking people will hold on this long with… Read more »

David
Member
David
3 months ago

Perhaps for all armies, army wide abilities should be free i.e. not point costed in models by GW – they can then balance the rules rather than points of the rules.

David Gwynn
David Gwynn
3 months ago

I loved the point about the ‘fantasy’ of the army – it’s really good to make you have a think about the actual abilities of the army rather than how they’re described. Eg my own iron warriors, we work really well with obliterators and daemon engines, both which is kind of fluffy. But, where are our siege tanks?! For all it was unbalanced in 3.5, it felt great being able to field a vindicator and a basilisk where other traitors couldn’t.

Mathieu
Member
Mathieu
3 months ago

Was this recorded before we had a glimpse at the new Necron Dynasties rules and a few new datasheets by any chance?

I’m asking because the Gauss Reapers doesn’t look “as bad” while playing Sautekh. Sure, it’s locked being “okay-ish” behind a specific Dynasty, but it’s still better than being trash in every situation (Looking at you Canoptek Reanimator).

DObkeratops
Member
DObkeratops
3 months ago

Great Vid, I really like how you are drawing attention to how Games Workshop’s “You are getting nice things and everything will be great Soon(tm)” is irrelevant to how good the game is now as I feel it is a really underhanded tactic on their part. As an Emperor’s Children collector I feel my army only really got decent in-game identity and flavour in Faith and Fury and I dont think having to wait until the last %5 of an edition to get that is acceptable, with the amount of armies I feel again some people are going to have… Read more »

Last edited 3 months ago by DObkeratops
Corruption
Member
Corruption
3 months ago

It feels like a lot of 40k factions don’t have a clear identity – as you put it, Necrons are a ‘jack of all trades’ and certainly a master of none. It would be overpowered if they matched the fluff exactly – you would have a horde of silver bodies all toting firepower to make Eldar and T’au players jealous. Are Necrons meant to be a horde army, an elite army, or the something inbetween which is where they are at the moment. I’d suggest an improvement would be to remove RP from Necron Warriors entirely, and cost them accordingly.… Read more »

Sateesh Daniel
Sateesh Daniel
3 months ago

One funny thought I had listening to you guys talk about attrition, is that Tau in 8th played like Necrons are supposed to.

Chris keimig
Chris keimig
3 months ago

I love this discussion, and love the idea. But I do have one question. Why do Necrons now? They are getting a codex in October, and there is a good chance that quite a bit of this will change. Wouldn’t it have been better served to do a different army and wait for Necrons till after the new ‘dex?

Nébal
Nébal
3 months ago

Great video, I love this format.
Even if this one is a bit disheartening, as a Necron player. I hope the codex will fix some issues…
I still believe in Destroyers, though.
And I will certainly try the Skorpekhs. The Plasmancer seems rubbish, and I fear you’re right about the Reanimator. I used to run several Crypteks, but with new costs that doesn’t seem viable.
Pointswise, what worries me the most is probably the Immortals, though. I get everything became costlier with Chapter Approved, but I really think Necron troops were hurt way too hard…

Virate
Member
Virate
3 months ago

Want to say I really like these discussion videos! I think you guys are really understating how bad of a position necrons are in at the moment and have been throughout the second half of 8th edition. They had an early 8th codex release and it was very underwhelming in comparison to the other codexes at the time which was not helped by a complete lack of updates throughout the edition (no vigilus and no PA). Also I think you should have talked about Szeras’ new rules in the ugly section as he is nothing but a big old pile… Read more »

Ian Stokes
Ian Stokes
3 months ago

I agree with the core stuff being mentioned here, but there are definitely ways to play around these issues. My current focus is on Nihilakh with tough units – Lychguard with shields and wraiths. For 2 CP you can give a unit of wraiths a 2++ and sit them on a midfield objective. For 4CP you can do the same to lychguard. That’s a unit that is surviving to roll its RP. That’s where I get my resilience from, especially now we have more CP. In 8th, You’d have 8CP in most lists, now you start with 12 and gain… Read more »