War Zone Nephilim Grand Tournament Review | Warhammer 40,000 State of Play
An update for the Grand Tournament missions lands, but what do Beard and Chef think about the changes within?
For all the Faction Secondaries, check out our Article Breakdown here!
01:34 Mission Rules
07:05 General Secondaries
13:50 Faction Secondaries
19:38 Wrap Up
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Like most of the internet, my gaming group will be ignoring the WL and Relic costs. Do you think GW will ever admit they made a mistake with that?
This is going to be the first chapter approved I don’t buy either, we only play Tempest now and this CA isn’t going to change that.
Might give the CP changes a try in our Tempest games though.
Do characters like Bobby G and the Silent King still get their rule that gives them +3 CP?
Cant really agree on the CP change. Its influence is quite big – to me way too big. Easy examples: 3 in Incursion means you can have 1 1/2 characters loaded out. From Drukhari perspective i like to ask at this point: why they enabled us to play 2 detachments / 2 factions in Incursion when they take it away now? Thats hilarisouly stupid! For strike force its nearly the same result. 6 CP means you e.g. can play a Raiding force or Realspace Raid with 3 subfactions which needs 3 HQs (one of each subfaction). Now GW says: no!… Read more »
I deeply dislike the cp change specifically for my imperial knights, it basically means if you want a warlord trait and relic and don’t have 6 armigers or 3 questoris you get 1 cp.
I have just finished painting up a chaos daemons army and now i find that its going to use all my cp to field exalted greater deamons, one with a warlord trait, relic and banner(s) for lesser deamons… previously it was easy because deamons didnt use much cp during the game and sure they arent competative in many scenarios but this change is great for armies like aeldari who have moved to using points upgrades instead of cp upgrades but its another example of crippling old books long before they get a 9th ed codex.
Not sure if it has been brought up in the comments below. But at the bottom of the article for pre ordering the new Chapter aproved it mentions that Characters who get multiple WLTs still only pay 1cp.
So for me I have a massive issue with the CP reduction. The design of this 9th edition is around CP usage. So many armies are designed to only be truly effective through CP usage and this guts them. As an example with Imperial Knights in a single battle round I am burning 10cp solely for survival as all of our defensive capabilities are relegated to strategems (also I have a strat that costs 4CP so that might as well not have been printed). With this mass reduction I will be tabled or effectively bracketed out of effectiveness by turn… Read more »
Thank you for the review. I’ll be very interested to hear how the top GT players cope with the 99 faction specific secondaries out there which could fill out all three of an opponent’s secondary choices. With the previous limit to one, players could still build their list to minimize secondary scoring for the vast majority of armies they face. Doing so now will be nigh near impossible (assumption here as I haven’t read through them yet), which could lead to some new blood in the upper ranks.
“This isn’t tempest, I’ve been tricked.” 😂 that’s killed me off for the day
What’s this I hear about auto destroyed empty Dedicated Transports on deployment?
Great video thank you 🙂 I’ll agreed with a lot of it but from paying for first warlord trait and relic as well that went to far to be honest and don’t know about secondary’s of taking many of one’s I’ll like order specific should just be one and two core secondary would greatly balance the game 🙂
As a daemons player, being one of the few books left to be redone, Im apprehensive about the lower CP. I feel like I spend my CP just to stay at a level pegging, not to get ahead. But I like a challenge. Hopefully I roll high on mental interrogation, but like Beard, I seem to do better with ritual.
I have mixed feelings on the CP change. On one hand I think it’ll make games last longer (good), but I think it also unfairly punishes armies that *rely* on heavy early CP spending to be competitive while making the armies that don’t even better. The Stig cameo got a good chuckle from me, but in all seriousness AdMech were already on the struggle bus and I’m uncertain they have a viable strategy besides heavy early CP spending. I’m sure other factions exist that are in the and boat. This will, at the least, force me to experiment to find… Read more »
Any Crusade missions etc? Haven’t watched yet so my appologies if it’s covered
Still not spiral bound like the AOS one that also came out today: 0/10. 😛
My entire local meta has swapped to Tempest now anyway, it’s just so much better! We’ve even switched to Tempest for our local tournaments. I’d imagine we’ll ignore the CP changes unless an FaQ drops specifically updating tempest rules.
It would be interesting to see book sale figures for this Vs Nachmund, I don’t know anyone planning to buy it this time around!
Let’s see some white scars huh?
I like the CP changes although it is going to hurt my black templars,as I really liked leaning hard into the characters and relics as it was fun, I don’t like paying for my warlord to have a trait or a relic though as it just feels bad, I also don’t like how they seem to have left named characters out of it to be interpreted.
Thanks for the massive work typing all those secondary changes! Interesting dicussion and I agree with everything. According to other reviews, the core rules are actually including errata and FAQs, so that is a massive plus compared to earlier CA editions. We’ll see how things work out. I’m afraid that Sisters of Battle actually may become a bit too strong with the secondary changes and the rumored points changes and that a total overreaction will follow afterwards (in typical GW style)… I want to play fun games against my opponents and not completely dominate a game just because the secondaries… Read more »
Well that thumbnail sums it up doesn’t it.
As others have already pointed out, the main problem is that the CP change doesn’t affect everyone equally.
This wrecks Deamons and that’s totally unnecessary. I know they are getting a new codex sometime soon, but it still isn’t reasonable and exacerbates the “drop-feed” codex release problem in this edition.
As always a great discussion! I am totally on board with the changes in secondaries (ok, I have to try them irl but the concepts seems good) and the CP regeneration. I am mostly ok with the CP reduction, with a few caveat: like Chef, I don’t really like that they make you pay for ALL warlord traits even though this will give a boost to named characters that give big bonuses without needing them (and this sucks for the factions/lists that don’t have a worthy one), and I am even more enraged at the idiotic “martial legacy” tax that… Read more »
Yeah, I’m gonna give this pack a skip. Not worried, there’ll be another one in six months. I’m just gonna stick to Tempest.
Definitely hurting as I am black Templar… We do not have good strats, our buffs were the CP and how we could buffs our different sergeants and units.They also need to FAQ Celestine and grimaldus because they both give away 12 VP for assassination.
I like the cut in the amount of CP’s you start with I think that’s great, I absolutely do not agree with the cost of your Warlord trait and as Chef say isn’t your Warload supposed to be a bit badass 🤷♂️
The points being free is fantastic and we’ll over due but if im honest I won’t be in any rush to go out and buy this. I bought the Nachmund mission pack and we played a handful of game then the beautiful Tempest of War came out and thats all we play now #Tempestisbestest lol.
My 2 cents Change is good, the game is not balanced therefore it needs change. 6 cp is fine, even if you have spent 4 pregame , you have 3 for your first turn. Its a change you will hav to adept By warlord / relics … why? It’s ok change , but with the halved starting cp.. it’s a bit strange.. All the secondary’s and rules in on book. Perfect and for me it’s a reason to spend the money.(I play mostly tournaments) “My next match is Iron warriors let’s check the secondary’s”👍 My main concern is that the… Read more »
Loving the changings! The only change I’m not a fan of, like chef said is the CP spend for 1st WLT/RELIC.
The shake is needed without making a new edition. If salty people can’t adapt to matched play! You have Narrative still.
I agree the loss of the warlord traits for free feels like the games lose abit of the fluff. I really like that CP is gained through the game now as it might soften some of the first turn advantage issues. It will give the second turn player a bit of time to adapt instead of getting blown of the board turn 2.
What do you do with Assassination if your opponent has no warlord? I’m looking forward to find more little silly things like that 😅….
One thing to remember….everyone can continue play 40k the way they like 😉
And its only for a few month rumbling the tournament scene. I vote it as a try and a new playground nothing more nothing less.
Lets give it a go and have fun💪🏼
Thanks for the wrap up folks. Nice and smooth as always👍🏽😎
It feels like GW was trying to solve an issue that wasn’t really there. Their stated rationale was to prevent first turn alpha strikes by dumping a load of CP into ‘big plays’ – except nobody at a competitive level was doing this (at least in the UK where terrain density is much higher than the US).
Hmm. I am personally not a fan of the CP reduction, mostly because it is not an “equal” or “balanced” change and I think it will do very little to prevent alpha strikes, which I suppose is what the change is for. Among others I play Chaos Knights and Admech and just thinking about these two in a new (albeit mostly casual, mind you) environment, I really don’t like it. My CK will now start with 0 CP and STILL have one less Warlord Trait/Relic, or one less before the game strat. Even if I reduce what I spend further… Read more »
Not a fan of carrying over CP to Tempest, whilst I mainly watch for entertainment value I also want to be watching games I’d normally play (outside of custom narrative missions).
Tempest is perfect for fun pick up games of matched play. People aren’t looking to agree house rules in those situations.
If this is a hint at a sweeping change? Fine 😉
I would have liked some discussion on Faction Secondaries for the books that don’t yet have 9th ed codeces.
Oh nvm, there’s an article about this very thing!
Hypothetically, your opponent says “I’m taking ALL the secondaries”. Apart from slowing the game down trying to keep track of more than a couple, are there now mixtures that mean Victory points cascade out of basic elements of a normal turn or you get inflated VP from e.g. moving and shooting a character. Literally getting rewarded for taking a normal turn 🤣
Also,why haven’t they added a “Gangbusters” style secondary?.
So many armies are suits / terminators / bikes ( t4-5 and w2-4 models) and give up virtually nothing in bring it down or no prisoners or etc.
Also free points,amazing….but if the CA book goes to 3-4 times a year instead of 1 then it feels like a false economy of value
Looking at the thumbnail this Chef is not a happy bunny.
While I will have to see it and play it to really form my opinion, my gut reaction is that I don’t like the CP changes. For a couple of reasons. 1) It reduces choice for detachments. Now you would only really seriously consider Patrols/Battalion’s. You won’t even consider Outrider or Vanguard (unless there is some concession here, I’m making this comment before really watching your vid so maybe there are…but I doubt it). I was actually considering vanguards. You are also very unlikely to consider multiple detachments. 2) It destroys pre-game cp spend armies. Daemons specifically with the exalted… Read more »
The CP could have dropped to 9 instead of 6,would have hurt knights and custodes less.
Character knight army not having enough cp to rotate t1 is awful.
GW would be better off dealing with Hail of doom and how good suits are,instead of such a huge cp change. The paying fir your WL to have a WLT is just silly.
So how is named characters treated? Ie does Abaddon pay CP for his warlord trait when you use him and a CP for the sword and Talon of Horus. Are those relics?
Only rule I care about is 6cp and 1 each turn. I’m going use that in Tempest, as for the rest I just don’t care anymore tbh.
Has it wrecked some of my armies? Yes and no. Problem is CSM and Daemons are still 8th edition and it’s now at the point to try and compare them to anything 9th.
Ultimately GW have released a brilliant product…. And it’s called Tempest of War not GT anything.
retrieve armageddon data would be RAD!
(i’ll get my coat)
I get that GW wanted to reduce the power of turn 1 alpha strikes & make CP relevant all through the game. But I think this would have been possible without gimping list building options (just limit CP spending turn 1 and maybe2). The changes to 9th have already killed most situational relics/traits and now they are properly buried. Things like Trajann and tallyman become even more an auto include and bringing your fun (but not super competitive) FW units gets further punished. This is properly the first book relevant to my armies that I will not get since voting… Read more »
I’m not sure how I feel about that… I don’t like it.
Oh Chef… you do not look satisfied.