Warhammer 40,000 Faction Focus: *NEW CODEX* Space Marines

Avatar Tabletop Tactics October 8, 202013  120 13 Likes

Bone and Chef sit down to go over the Good the Bad and the Ugly in the brand new Space Marine Codex!

*ATTENTION*- We briefly touch on some aspects of the Index Astartes and the FAQs released recently but a more in depth discussion will be coming for these armies as their Supplements are released.

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Tomas Sandtiger Quinones
Tomas Sandtiger Quinones
7 days ago

The good rebalances are all things I agree with so far and I am willing to wait for supplements to fix the majority of bad things that are brought up. Good show guys. 🙂

Benjamin Harned
Benjamin Harned
8 days ago

I’m really looking forward to playing space marines with this new codex. There are so many new options to play around with. Even tactical marines! A squad of 5 with a heavy bolter and a SB on the sergeant is 105. Melta/combi-melta is 110. Those aren’t too shabby when compared against intercessors at 100. Other units that got overshadowed are viable too. Tor Garrodon matches up quite favorably with a chapter master now!

Brett Strickland
Brett Strickland
9 days ago

To answer the question about Hellblasters and how\why people use them, I use them because they came in my Dark Imperium box lol. But seriously I have 15 total now and I run them as a medium threat eliminator like say heavy infantry, smaller vehicles like Blight Haulers, land speeders, or a Bloat Drone, so my tanks can focus on the main tanks of the enemy. I will normally keep a captain and ancient near by for rerolls and so if one blows up he can shoot again. You guys often mention a unit when running down your lists and… Read more »

Viktor S
Viktor S
11 days ago

Guys I think you have to realize that Games Workshop is in an impossible situation. There most popular army by far is space marines. This means that they need to be at least decent because otherwise too many people will be upset. For the same reason it makes sense to add more models to the range to make a profit, they are a business after all. Now you have to give those models interesting rules so people buy them. At the same time you can not make the space marines over powered as this will upset the community at large.… Read more »

_ewar_
_ewar_
11 days ago

Wow that was a marathon not a sprint, well done guys! It’s a huge amount to process so I really appreciate you taking the time. I largely agree with your commentary and I’m just really looking forward to getting some game time with the new book. I really, sincerely hope this version sticks around for a decent lenth of time – min 36 months. The rate of book releases is a bit sickening in the last 4 or 5 years. Things I love Hopefully we can stop being the most OP faction now and everyone can go back to hating… Read more »

Dean Brereton
Dean Brereton
12 days ago

The Trans Strat remove for OG marines does seem harsh, Could they have not kept it but just for those units with core excluding Dreadnoughts. Also why have my Crimson lost the +1 in combat for outnumbered? again just very harsh

Rory Gallagher
Rory Gallagher
13 days ago

I just wish they would update the 3 yeard old guard and craftworld codexes before releasing the…8th space marine book in between.

Magnus Magnusson
Magnus Magnusson
13 days ago

Than you for the analysis, really great as always!
The only point of contention I have is about the Tactical marines being a little too expensive. I think them having access to rhino’s and especially drop pods makes them super competitive in a game that’s all about grabbing and holding objectives.

Patsfan32
Patsfan32
14 days ago

I disagree about spacewolves and have the exact opposite opinion as you. I think it looks GOOD on paper. But its the only chapter tactic that 100% puts the ball in your opponents court. You have no agency in whether or not you actually get to utilize it and a good player will play around it completely.

James Marsden
James Marsden
14 days ago

I think Deathwatch with firstborn could be one to watch as nothing else (so far) gets special issue ammo

Tuomas
Tuomas
14 days ago

Great video guys! I think the Hellblasters have a place in a Dark Angels list, since “Weapons from the dark age” stratagem gives +1 dmg to plasma weapons, hence dmg 3 plasma rifles with overcharge (or dmg 4 with the heavy option). They are pricey though and Eradicators are a thing as you stated.

Last edited 14 days ago by Tuomas
Mike
Mike
14 days ago

I think if there was ever a time for GW to work through this awkward era between codex updates and supplements for 9th, it’s the one where a lot of us aren’t really able to go out and game in person anyway. In a way they lucked out with that, since they can work on getting as caught up as they can before things open up more fully sometime in early-to-mid 2021. Being told to wait until November stings a little less if you weren’t going to play much before then regardless. On Primaris jump assault units, Vanguard Vets now… Read more »

Zeruel90
Zeruel90
14 days ago

Agree with pretty much everything. Sad about aggressors, losing both abilities was too heavy handed imo, shoulda at least kept advance without penalty. Repulsors I think are both bad and ugly and it’s sad they’ve been so mediocre ever since they were released. ATVs being so ridiculous is both hilarious and probably not good at all lol. Eradicators are a very weird unit to me. I definitely understand they are becoming a problem, but I wouldn’t want to see them get nerfed as badly as aggressors. I’d happily pay some more points for them to still work the same, or… Read more »

Tinuva
Member
Tinuva
15 days ago

As a Dark Angel player I am really looking forward to their new rules and seeing you boys put them to work. But also as a player I want their rules to be good, but not Iron Hands good that they are abused and then over-nerfed.
As you talk about with Hellblasters, it is such a tricky way to balance some things as they are either good and spammed, or just overcosted for their abilities and crap. Time will tell. Keep up the great work!

fulgrimatic
fulgrimatic
15 days ago

I take “bad” units as a challenge, and will be running some heavy hellblasters and stalker intercessors this weekend. We shall see!

Last edited 15 days ago by fulgrimatic
Mortz82
Member
Mortz82
15 days ago

I want the Techmarine rule your talking about, not for Space Marines obviously but for Admech 🤖 Make it happen GeeDubbz 😁

Exsomnia
Exsomnia
15 days ago

Great breakdown. Thanks chaps. Looking forward to the deathwatch one as they, IMHO, are one of the factions in the stickiest place from the context of how messy their index is especially.

Porthos
Member
Porthos
15 days ago

I don’t understand why GW woke up one day hating Aggressors. Both special abilities, gone. No sense in it.
And yes, as a Primaris Raven Guard player… give me the jump packs and lightning claws. Admittedly the changes to first-born wounds and lightning claw attacks make a conversion project more interesting…

Kdash
Member
Kdash
15 days ago

Im optimistic about the future. However, I wont be taking part in competitive events for at least 6 months – certainly not this side of christmas at any rate. It is one of the main issues with GWs release schedule… it takes forever for everything to get updated. In regard to ATVs, change it from biker to vehicle and you are sorted I think. Eradicators, no double tapping if you moved, regardless of “count as not moving” strats. Dark Angels and Deathwing will be interesting, but I do think it is being over hyped, especially I regards to pure DWing… Read more »

Gerald Cloud
Gerald Cloud
15 days ago

Honestly just giving the ATV thr vehicle keyword instead of biker keyword would fix quite a bit of the current issue with them. Wouldnt even need to change the points. Removes apothecary problem with them, otherwise I am weirdly fine with the apothecary. It gives more balance to the opponent being able to score well on bring it down against them. Flavor-wise it feels more correct, I mean, they have vehicle in their name! Also helps explain why they explode from a continuity point with the rest of the units that can explode. Opponents who have buffs against vehicles now… Read more »

TheGravyBoater
Member
TheGravyBoater
15 days ago

With most of the marine chapters being rolled into one book and a few indexes out to help those who have a supplement on the way does this mean we are going too see a few battle reports featuring the dragons as space wolves for example?

Matthew O'Hara
Matthew O'Hara
15 days ago

Rough time to be a Deathwatch Player outside of friendly games. Got nothing in Psychic Awakening and then got crushed in the FAQ. They buffed a ton of weapons but nerfed the Frag Cannon for some reason? And then largely removed SIA from the game; including on the entire Primaris Range. Our entire chapter trait can be replicated by taking an HQ choice.
The only thing people seem to like is the ability to game ‘Combat-Squad’ing the Kill Teams in a gamey way. Hope to be proven wrong on the tabletop I suppose

Zombiemaker
Zombiemaker
15 days ago

What I really like about the books(from what I’ve seen, is it Saturday yet?) is the similar wording/universal rules such as Core, Objective Secured etc. And the structure seems much better overall. Points will always be off, and with rate of FAQ/CA in recent times it seems possible things will shake out again in the spring. Hopefully the ATV’s get FAQ’d before then. As a Dark Angel when the marines come out I am sad for the loss weapons of the dark age, my marines have been overheating plasma since 2nd ed, it’s what the lore demands! Excited for the… Read more »

Hrimfar
Member
Hrimfar
15 days ago

Blood Angels had the OG vanguard veterans. Back in 3rd edition we could bring veteran assault marines.

Exsomnia
Exsomnia
15 days ago

1 small thought on Hellblasters. Literally the only potential decent way of running them is as DW. 5 intercessors and 5 Hellblasters gives you a fair amount to chew through before they start dying and they get ObSec.

But. And there is a big but… Things still do the job better. Especially with the gravis kill team… *cough* Oof…

I plan on trying it at least… 😅

Last edited 15 days ago by Exsomnia
Phil Winterbourne
Phil Winterbourne
15 days ago

Great chat guys. I will still bring Eradicators (but on 3 of the 9 I have) for friendly games – because i love the models. But I’ll also bring a squad of 5 Aggressors still, because I absolutely love the models. I’ll take your advice and stay clear of the murder buggy until it’s been CA’s to a more reasonable cost. So all in all I’m a happy Ultramarine player. One question on the Judicicar. I like him a lot, and have been running him around with 3 x Bladegaurd and 2 x Victrix (pending 5 man Bladegaurd squads being… Read more »

Carl Jette
Carl Jette
15 days ago

I think the problem with Space Marines is this absurd 98 datasheets, it makes it very hard to balance, I’d say even impossible, because as a developper you’re going to try to make each one of them unique and have a role. Well I can’t see how, and what it’s doing is super large list of units that goes from superbad to supergood, the Eradicators are very good exemple, with all the anti-tank options how do you make them stand out from devastators, Las predators, Executionnors, etc. Let’s give them 24″ meltas that fire twice on the move, great you’ve… Read more »

Linden Burnstein
Linden Burnstein
15 days ago

I agree the FAQ was poorly thought out. GW knows a “warp flamer” is a flamer, just like a grey knight “incinerator” is a flamer. It’s just lazy. That doesn’t even touch on whoever is running Imperial Fists on the rules team and everyone hates him/her.
On the note of first born. They’re obviously becoming a liability. Yes the kind folks at GW are letting me use my models but a lot of the stratagems in the book don’t affect them. Which is a real kick in the dick.

Oliver Horton
Oliver Horton
15 days ago

Although it seems doom and gloom with the Space Wolves formating, I’ve happy with most of the changes. Blood Claws and Hunters are a lot better now, arguably better than Intercessors for the points. The Long Fang change is a bit disappointing but expected something to happen to them. I’m really looking forward to the supplement to see what we get to bring back the remaining flavour. Also I’ve seen that Bikers become Swift Claws for SW armies but don’t appear to get Bezerk Charge and Headstrong, is this something the supplement will fix?

CMO
CMO
15 days ago

I’m the first person to say that marines have been ridiculous recently, and needed a nerf, but this feels like the pendulum might have swung too far the other way. Is there some internal politics, some reason why after nearly 40 years of game design, GW can’t get this right? Peaks and troughs for the marines, ever and always. It’s got to be better for the game if there is solid internal balance AND external balance for the codexes. Sorry Space Marines players – your book might still turn out to be decent, and you needed a rebalance, but this… Read more »

Coximus Maximus Meridius
Coximus Maximus Meridius
15 days ago

Great talking points about the merits of the new changes as always gentlemen! I enjoy these discussions for I am an optimist and love changes to the hobby as long as they are fun for all. As for my thoughts on them you’ll have to excuse me as I chain my trusty power sword to my wrist and Deus Vult for the Emperor! I love the new changes as they apply to my personal army of Primaris Black Templars, one of the best being the new higher unit cap for blade guard. That, plus changes to our chapter tactics being… Read more »

Alec Small
Alec Small
15 days ago

Further along. Black Templars players don’t have that confidence that our index PDF is interim. It is written as if it’s all we are getting, and knowing our luck, it probably is. So not having a Super Doctrine is probably going to hurt us for a while!

Colby Pryor
Colby Pryor
15 days ago

Great breakdown though I feel how people do comparative analysis is skewed upon making your points back and I think that that is a bit of a trap. Its like comparing between codexes. The comparative analysis should be role based, what can I do with this unit in ways that are obvious and not obvious. Can it be a distraction, can it block line of sight with it, or can it help get things across the board. And if one doesn’t, what about more than one? A land raider may not work but what about 3? People need to play… Read more »

MasterWis
Member
MasterWis
15 days ago

Thanks for the vid Guys. Few questions:
– What’s your take overall on storm shield changes? What’s the use on a captain with Iron Halo for exemple except giving +1 normal save, is it really worth it? Same for Custodes
– What about all the gladiator variant and the anti tank speeders, any thoughts?
Cheers

Johnathan Rhoades
Johnathan Rhoades
15 days ago

Thanks for the thoughts! If white scars are still decently playable after I finish my t sons army (next year, likely), that is my next build. I just love the mobility and the look so I have this on pre-order.

Knockham
Knockham
15 days ago

Is the Imperial Fists Super Doctrine is Trash-Tier Ugly? On round one, S7+ Heavy Weapons get +1 against vehicles and buildings… I guess there is a reason to take those hellblasters after all… amiright? 😉

Stefano
Member
Stefano
15 days ago

This was really, really brilliant. You did a very good analisys of the situation, and I’m with you in almost everything you said. I also think that marines are obviously still good, I would only comment on a few points (disclaimer: I only play Primaris.. you know, Cawl fanboy and everything): ERADICATORS: you are right, they are massively powerful right now. I could also agree on TOO powerful. But if you are playing only Primaris, like I do, you don’t have any real alternative as an antitank. All the Primaris tank are worst than bad, they are insulting, and the… Read more »

Vaske_bjarke
Member
Vaske_bjarke
15 days ago

This is all good, but what we really need, is Jericho’s backstory

Capfa
Capfa
15 days ago

If I would have to guess Lawrence was play testing the Primaris Jumppack Units and had quite a blast. Then decided to do his Flesh Tearers army. After realising that no Jumppacks Units will get released any time soon he put that project on a hold.

@Lawrence Tell me that I am wrong

Capfa
Capfa
15 days ago

Nice Summary. Really agree with the ATV being so much better than the Stormspeeder. Was really looking forward to get some Gunboats for my Phobos army. Now I am stuck with the decision to shoot myself in the foot or switch to the ATVs. What are your thoughts on Reivers? Seems like they got the short end of the stick, again. -1AP on Blade and Carabine would be quite important. @Chef would you please point out the rules team that shrike should get +1 A bc of dual claws. And that his Warlord trait is way too special. Even so… Read more »

Martijn Versteeg
Member
Martijn Versteeg
15 days ago

So as a Blood Angel player, I’m in limbo. I love that Sanguinary Guard got an extra attack, are -1 to hit and a bit cheaper. I love Dante’s (future) potential, Corbulo, Astorath. What I dislike is losing my psychic powers, making Mephiston and Libby Dreads useless for now, the massive points increase on Death Company but no Forlong Fury or Descent of Angels strats.
I’m having a hard time building a list I can make work at the moment. But I’m sure I’ll figure something out.

Azaiel
Member
Azaiel
15 days ago

Great run down gents!
As a Deathwatch player I´m just going to wait a month or two. I see no point using the FAQ too list build as of now. (eventhough it was quite a chonky FAQ for DW)

Khi Burgess
Member
Khi Burgess
15 days ago

I remember when Terminators were 2D6 save, I really think things like Land Raiders should have a 2D6 save.

Last edited 15 days ago by Khi Burgess
Alex Andersson
Alex Andersson
15 days ago

Solid discussion guys! Good work on this one 🙂 A lot of good obviously, some very warranted nerfs on things like impulsors and chapter master. And for the good of the game, space marines neaded to be brought down, It’s just such a shame that the internal balance is so skewered. The Eradicators together with BGV’s sours the whole codex for me, so incredibly powerful. Flyers are still horrible. They are ineffecient and they suffer because they are flyers, as they cant hide. The -1 dosen’t begin to make up for the fact they are T6, 3+, 10w and always… Read more »

Last edited 15 days ago by Alex Andersson
Conon Pinch
Conon Pinch
15 days ago

Interesting and balanced insights as ever folks. Eradicators and the ATV’s will be all over the tables, for now. Even with these two super star units, marines feel a little tamer now, which can only be a good thing!

PS: I hear you’re inline for the new L’Oréal adverts Chef? Any truth to this rumour?

Last edited 15 days ago by Conon Pinch
Lee Maddison
Lee Maddison
15 days ago

I’m not a Marine player (well not for 40k anyway) and I’m someone that’s built up a fairly decent sized Necron army (3k and still adding to it) due to the pandemic, let’s just preface this first because that will colour my view here. I think the big take away for me is that outside of the outliers (ATV/Eradicators) there’s nothing in this book that makes me really go ‘yeah I can’t deal with that’. There’s a lot less re-rolls going around from the army, which is good for the game. There looks to be a lot less of a… Read more »

Huw Tindall
Huw Tindall
15 days ago

Great voxcast gents. Love it. Personally I’d have put Scouts in the Bad section. Now elites and only one wound and a 4+ save they are like a bad version of Scions with worse weapon loadouts and crappy models! I’m struggling to think why you’d ever field them now?

Bastian Birkholz
Bastian Birkholz
15 days ago

I think Eradicators should be capped at one Unit per Army and maybe get the double tap only if at least 3 modells shoot at the same unit. I think then they would still be in every army but not as spammed and it would be easier to get rid of them.

David
Member
David
15 days ago

Such a messy transition from 8th to 9th. UGLY! I agree with this.
It’s a shame big model syndrome is still a thing, does not bode well for Primarchs or big gribblys.
I think Grey Knights & all the Chaos Marines will benefit more from additional wounds than clean marines.
Are the supplements more about flavour than stat sheets/mini codex? All I can glean from this video is that they will possibly have some stratagems in them and relics maybe?

Matt Hall
Matt Hall
15 days ago

The only way I found with my Hell blasters is to stick the hole squad of 10 with assault blasters in my land Raider crusader move up then in turn 2 crispy bake with there 30 shots at any thing until the units dead while the Raider sits on a objective. If you take the others plasma weapons and over charge there probably kill themselves anyways.